Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

Science is a religion. Other religions do not require hypotheses and the methodology of a proof. If other religions did require it, then they’d be science not whatever they are. Science requires faith in the scientific process.

All religions, including science, are ways in which humans describe and understand observed realities. The differences are in the methods.

That may have just been coincidence.

Perhaps events had been even better had you not prayed?

How can you ever know?

I’m surprised no one has mention John 20:24 et seq

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

And how did you realise that was not just a coincidence? Can you reproduce that effect now? Can you tell me what I can do to have the same effect?

@fedupandstuck, because it has happened more consistently than coincidence occurs. You need to pray in faith for that which is God's will and believe your prayers will be answered. So you need to know God and actively seek His will.

Science is a method for understanding the world, and does not require faith/belief nor does it hold any tenets as unarguably true and unchanging.

Every scientific law is a tenet that is inarguably true and unchanging. Such as the law of gravity, the laws of thermodynamics, and so on.

The formal definition is as follows, a scientific law is a description of a pattern in nature that is true in all circumstances that have been studied. That is, physical laws are meant to be universal, meaning that they apply throughout the known universe.

Perhaps events had been even better had you not prayed?

@Lalupalina, doubt it. Does it make you feel better to believe this?

This was such a good question. It deserved a better answer than "because I say so".

But I have been DYING to ask this, and keep getting sidetracked:

@heyhohello: "prayers answered, immediately in some cases."

When praying for something, or "manifesting", what about the domino effects of your desire? Surely somebody else wanted the same thing as you - perhaps more urgently or desperately. Is it right to rob them of it? What about the other things that won't now happen, that might even have been better? Has anyone or anything been hurt in the fulfilment of your desire?

There are always domino effects.

And what happens when a bunch of people pray for the same thing at the same time? If only one of you can have it, all the other prayers fail. So it's a deeply unreliable method.

Does science dictate how you live and who you can have relationships with. Does science prevent women from owning property? Religions are for the most part cult like in their requirement for commitment. Science requires no such commitment of behaviour or control.

@BabaBarrio

Science and religion are nothing aliike! Religion cannot cure a single disease. It cannot usefully explain a single physical fact: not where humans came from, not where life came from, not where the universe came from. Religion cannot explain volcanoes, earthquakes, thunderstorms, hurricanes, epidemics, allergies, birth defects, diseases ... nothing. Religion cannot usefully explain a single thing. Science, however, explains all these and a lot more. So how can any reasonable person think that science is a religion?

"true in all circumstances that have been studied."

Were there to be a new set of circumstances where that law did not apply then science would gladly adjust and adapt. That's rather crucial and can't be waved away.

@Garlicking regarding domino effect is why I pray to God for His will to be done. I trust Him to do the right thing. Otherwise I could simply be performing witchcraft.

I drive into a busy car park and chant “please, please, I’m in a hurry and need a parking space “ it’s amazing but 99/100 I get a spot when others keep driving around looking for one. This is consistent rather than coincidence. Have my prayers been answered?

Experience

I think you are confusing culture with religion.
Scientists are required to commit to the scientific method and process. They study for years to get a degree in divine science. They must also submit to senior scientist and peer review to ensure their writings are sufficiently scientifically holy before being given to the masses of science followers.

Why would we?

But why are you assuming that he has your best interest in mind?

Other religions also adapt and adjust. That’s crucial and cannot be ignored either.

The Middle Ages flat earth myth is largely a result of the largely discredited Draper White conflict theory of the 19 th century.

@BabaBarrio if religions change, it's not because they have tested hypothesis and found that they were wrong.

@BabaBarrio Sorry but that's rubbish. No such rules apply. Children can be scientists without commitment to anything. Anyone can be a scientist. Culture is something else entirely.

@Parker231 not prayers answered because you don't believe in God. Perhaps your chant is a kind of witchcraft, you manifesting a desire. Except as @Garlicking talked about with what she coined the 'domino effect' this might affect the world detrimentally if someone else was in greater need of the space.

Yes, it can explain all of that and more. Are you aware that the entire field of medicine was based on the religious medicine? Hospitals were invented by religious sects, not by science sects. Scientists of old were alchemists more concerned with turning lead into gold and astrology.

But why are you assuming that he has your best interest in mind?

@Lalupalina, because that is my experience of Him.

Religions do change, and of course it wouldn’t be by the same mechanism by which the religion of science changes. Each religion has its own mechanism to adapt and adjust.

Scientists of old were often persecuted by religious groups and burned or shunned.