Why (or why not) be Christian? Part 2

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing from this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/5018897-why-or-why-not-be-christian

Anyone welcome to join. 🙂

[TheFancyPoet]

I have read some of the posts over there. Too many out of topics random opinions on all sorts. Anyway, what is then the opinion on: do you mean you want to be just a cultural christian, someone who is christian in name, but not true follower of Jesus , because there are many christians in name who won't end up in Heaven for example.

[TheFancyPoet]

And if we take this topic and just stretch it and turn around and go in circles and so on, how is that saving souls for example??????

[CurlewKate]

@Kdtym10 For me, people trying to live the best life we can benefits society as a whole. But I don't think of society as something bigger than be the way people of faith regard a supreme being. Just people living together as best they can.

[Lalupalina]

I've explained my views pretty extensively on the other thread.

My main disagreement remains with some posters' assertion that there 'needs to be something bigger' I just cannot see any need or justification for that.

[Lalupalina]

Perhaps we just need to agree to disagree

[heyhohello]

And if we take this topic and just stretch it and turn around and go in circles and so on, how is that saving souls for example??????

@TheFancyPoet, the discussions regarding evolution were relating to questions surrounding, 'Why do we need (a) God?'. The atheists on the thread were putting forward the idea that altruistic behaviour is evolutionary and in that sense 'self serving' to ensure survival. Various discussions arose regarding whether that is selfish or not arose from this.

I was putting forward my own views from a Christian perspective, as I am of the Christian faith, but discussing my Christian ideas in relation to existing scientific knowledge.

[heyhohello]

@TheFancyPoet

And my assertion is simply that one of the reasons we need God is because evolutionary adaptation is too slow to adapt to environmental conditions, as it occurs over several generations and is retrospective and only from the very narrow perspective of the data set/population in question. Whereas a relationship with the living eternal God, through, Christ means somonevcan partake of his infinite knowledge and goodness and do the right thing according to Him which benefits the whole of His creation.

[heyhohello]

@TheFancyPoet and then regarding the relatively slowness of evolution I was talking about how behaviour and environment can affect gene expression epigenetically much more rapidly. This relates biblically to the concept of 'sins of the fathers'.

[TheFancyPoet]

Poster, thank you. I wanted to read the whole previous one but they stop it at 1000 replies. Could not read it. Thank you also clarifying you are a believer, not just someone putting the name as to one is buddhist, hindu and or muslim but ....

[heyhohello]

@TheFancyPoet yes, I am Christian and you will probably see my posts on a few of the threads on this discussion board. Many of the conversations are much more focused on Biblical understanding and include references to scripture to back up the ideas discussed.🙂

[heyhohello]

But apologies everyone for going on. I can get a bit nerdy with it all!🥴

[Pluralism]

I'm wrestling with this at the moment. Brought up vaguely Christian but my dad was an atheist. Have been agnostic most of my adult life but with short periods of faith and belief. A few events have occurred in the past few years that have slowly led me back to faith. Also, I was reading Jung's Synchronicity, and it struck me that the optimum state for synchronistic events he described was basically that of faith and prayer, even if he didn't use those terms himself. Ditto the Buddhist meditation I've benefited from hugely in the past couple of years. Anyway, I'm currently reading the bible and completely stuck on Leviticus. Seems to have been written by a tyrant with OCD! No offence.

[heyhohello]

@Pluralism maybe start with The New Testament, more relatable!😉 And find a church because the Christian faith is more than just study.

[TheFancyPoet]

For me this is easy to reply: i have had dreams of God and Jesus and some visions which I googled and they happened to be from Revelation. I did the Alpha course also, which is lovely to be honest

[TheFancyPoet]

The other thing was that I had visitations in dreams from saints according to the traditional church calendar. I woke up ( i do not read the calendars ) and googled it again and that dream was agains their saint patron day next day. No one can tell me nothing now. This is why I believe in Jesus

[Parker231]

Interested in everyone’s comments but very happy as an atheist

[Mustardseed86]

@Pluralism

I'm wrestling with this at the moment. Brought up vaguely Christian but my dad was an atheist. Have been agnostic most of my adult life but with short periods of faith and belief. A few events have occurred in the past few years that have slowly led me back to faith. Also, I was reading Jung's Synchronicity, and it struck me that the optimum state for synchronistic events he described was basically that of faith and prayer, even if he didn't use those terms himself. Ditto the Buddhist meditation I've benefited from hugely in the past couple of years. Anyway, I'm currently reading the bible and completely stuck on Leviticus. Seems to have been written by a tyrant with OCD! No offence.

I agree Leviticus is very very prescriptive for every part of life, but it was only intended for the Israelites. Lots of it is about symbolism, and ensuring they maintained a separate identity to the nations around them in preparation for the coming Messiah. Jews then and now would not say that these rules were for everyone.

[Eyesopenwideawake]

Really can't get my head around anyone believing in any "higher being" of any flavour/description.

We are enough as we are.

[Pluralism]

@Mustardseed86

I agree Leviticus is very very prescriptive for every part of life, but it was only intended for the Israelites. Lots of it is about symbolism, and ensuring they maintained a separate identity to the nations around them in preparation for the coming Messiah. Jews then and now would not say that these rules were for everyone.

But doesn't Jesus say somewhere that "not one word of the law shall pass away..." or something? Sorry I'm not great with my biblical quotes. I can never quite work out whether he's upholding Jewish tradition or creating something new from the old prophecies. If he was a 90s policitician I expect he'd be talking about a "third way".

[Kdtym10]

@CurlewKate

@Kdtym10 For me, people trying to live the best life we can benefits society as a whole. But I don't think of society as something bigger than be the way people of faith regard a supreme being. Just people living together as best they can.

So do you think there is such a thing as society? Or just a collection on individuals?

How do you define God in this context?

[Pluralism]

@Eyesopenwideawake

Really can't get my head around anyone believing in any "higher being" of any flavour/description.

We are enough as we are.

Are we though? To my mind we behave a bit like the old testament god, never quite sure whether to save the world or nuke it.

[Kdtym10]

@Eyesopenwideawake

Really can't get my head around anyone believing in any "higher being" of any flavour/description.

We are enough as we are.

And what are we?

[Kdtym10]

@Pluralism

But doesn't Jesus say somewhere that "not one word of the law shall pass away..." or something? Sorry I'm not great with my biblical quotes. I can never quite work out whether he's upholding Jewish tradition or creating something new from the old prophecies. If he was a 90s policitician I expect he'd be talking about a "third way".

You’re quite correct, somewhere buried in the threads which have preceded this one is a discussion regarding Paul expanding the teachings of Jesus to Gentiles.

Christianity talks about a New Covenant between God and His people (ie Jews). Personally I prefer to see Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism. It’s not a popular view though😂.

[CurlewKate]

@Kdtym10 yes, I believe there is such a thing as society. My repeated use of the word is a bit of a giveaway. It’s not up to me to define god. I don’t think he exists.

[Lalupalina]

And what are we?

A species of living organisms called homo sapiens. It's really not more complicated than that!