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Original poster

Struggling with Hell

371 replies

ksw0203 · 04/11/2021 15:17

Hi everyone,

I'm a christian but I'm really struggling with the idea of eternal punishment for unbelievers, it just seems very cruel and unlike the God I think I know. Has anyone else struggled with this or has any parts of scripture that could suggest something other than this? I know that Judaism and some sects of early Christianity viewed hell as a temporary punishment that sort of 'refined' people but don't know how reliable this is?

Thanks!

OP posts:
glimpsing · 09/11/2021 10:53

Plenty of non-christians love people though.

Never said they didn't @hyperbyke. And if I experience it I feel like I not only experience their love but God in them because I believe God is love.Smile

hyperbyke · 09/11/2021 11:00

@glimpsing

Plenty of non-christians love people though.

Never said they didn't @hyperbyke. And if I experience it I feel like I not only experience their love but God in them because I believe God is love.Smile

But you seem to be saying that people who end up in hell are people who align themselves against love, but that anyone who doesn't worship the Christian God ends up in hell, which they deserve. How does that work?
glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:12

But you seem to be saying that people who end up in hell are people who align themselves against love, but that anyone who doesn't worship the Christian God ends up in hell, which they deserve. How does that work?

I believe God is love. So aligning yourself against God goes against love. However, if you love you have God in you. Maybe you choose the things of God and are aligning with Him without being able to express this in the same Christian language but if you met with His presence you would accept rather than reject it and relinquish anything which is wrong within yourself instead of holding onto it. This is my hope, so you could have unity with God in Heaven. I don't know whether this would be possible in terms of each individual, though, because I cannot judge as God does.

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:14

I do like the universal salvation idea that everyone will be reconciled to God but acknowledge it does involve reconciliation with God.

speakout · 09/11/2021 11:18

This whole salvation thing is nonsensical.

So generations down the line god still blames us for something our ancestors basically did- we are all born into sin.
But to redeem us for breaking nonsensical laws about fruit the whole of humankind is born flawed.
But in order to save ius jfrom his silly rules he comes to earth in human form, sacrifices himself- to himself, and all is ok.
So so many things wrong with this.
How did jesus supposedly bear the sins on our behalf- I mean if I rob a bank No one else could go to prison for me ( although I believe this was a thing in the middle east 2000 years ago).
Also it wasn't much of a sacrifice- god, being omniscent and omnipotent would know that jesus ( himself) would come back to life in a couple of days- jesus basically had a bad weekend, that's all.

This guy god is a psychotic wanker.
Gaslights us, makes up arbitary rules, is jealous, wrathful, murders innocents- I mean look at the 10 commandments- half of them are about god's ego and throw a hissy fit if we don't pump up his sense of entitlement.
I wouldn't have a coffee with the dude, he has a dim view of women, supports slavery, gaslights people by telling them they are weak and worthless, and only though him they can be made whole.

If my daughter was married to this bloke I would be suggesting women's aid.

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:33

@speakout so I guess you don't want unity with God in Heaven then?

Goes without saying my perspective of God is entirely different to the god you describe. Maybe your heaven is my hell and visa versa...🤷‍♀️ another take on things isn't it?

hyperbyke · 09/11/2021 11:36

@glimpsing

But you seem to be saying that people who end up in hell are people who align themselves against love, but that anyone who doesn't worship the Christian God ends up in hell, which they deserve. How does that work?

I believe God is love. So aligning yourself against God goes against love. However, if you love you have God in you. Maybe you choose the things of God and are aligning with Him without being able to express this in the same Christian language but if you met with His presence you would accept rather than reject it and relinquish anything which is wrong within yourself instead of holding onto it. This is my hope, so you could have unity with God in Heaven. I don't know whether this would be possible in terms of each individual, though, because I cannot judge as God does.

The fast majority of people, regardless of religion or lack thereof, experience live at some point in their lives. So who exactly is going to hell?
speakout · 09/11/2021 11:37

glimpsing

You ask a meaningless question.
Do I want unity with god in heaven?

I don't believe god, heaven or hell exists so I can't answer your question.
It's a bit like me asking you if you would like to come for a sleepover with my mermaid friend who lives in an igloo on mars.

hyperbyke · 09/11/2021 11:40

His presence you would accept rather than reject it and relinquish anything which is wrong within yourself instead of holding onto it

What is wrong within someone is subjective. There are things that some people would find wrong and others not.

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:44

The fast majority of people, regardless of religion or lack thereof, experience live at some point in their lives. So who exactly is going to hell?

🤷‍♀️ universal salvation then?

I don't believe god, heaven or hell exists so I can't answer your question.
It's a bit like me asking you if you would like to come for a sleepover with my mermaid friend who lives in an igloo on mars.

There's an answer for you...and in the answer to the next question, I'd be curious to find out more.

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:46

What is wrong within someone is subjective. There are things that some people would find wrong and others not.

Culturally, yes. But not with God. He knows the right thing for every situation. If you were faced with His knowledge would you accept it?

speakout · 09/11/2021 11:53

Even christians utilise a subjective analysis when discriminating passages in the bible.

Or do they think women should be silent in church?
Slavery is OK?
Raping of young women?
Denigration of handicapped people?
All this happens in the bible and is the word of god.

Christians are quick to dismiss the parts of the bible which are obviously immoral- how do christians make that distinction if not for subjective morality?

speakout · 09/11/2021 11:55

He knows the right thing for every situation.

Like genocide?? THat cute little tale of Noah's ark, or burning whole cities and murdering thousands of men, women and children?

And you worship him?

If he was a human he would be behind bars.

hyperbyke · 09/11/2021 11:56

@glimpsing

What is wrong within someone is subjective. There are things that some people would find wrong and others not.

Culturally, yes. But not with God. He knows the right thing for every situation. If you were faced with His knowledge would you accept it?

Every believer seems to have a slightly different idea of what God thinks is right.
hyperbyke · 09/11/2021 11:56

🤷‍♀️ universal salvation then?

So he'll doesn't exist then?

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:57

Every believer seems to have a slightly different idea of what God thinks is right.

You could pray and ask God...

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:58

So he'll doesn't exist then?

If universal salvation is possible it would be redundant, wouldn't it.

speakout · 09/11/2021 11:58

You could pray and ask God...

Which god?

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 11:59

speakout which god would you consult?

speakout · 09/11/2021 12:01

glimpsing

I don;t consult imaginary things- I am asking you which god you are suggesting.

Vishnu?
Zeus?
Lakshmi?

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 12:02

So how do you find clarity, @speakout?

WarmWinterSun · 09/11/2021 12:12

Hi OP

It surprises me how little many Christians read and study they Bible. I would suggest spending time reading the scriptures and investing in a quality Bible with scholarly footnotes and an index, so that you can easily locate and read what the Bible says. You could then seek guidance on any passages you find problematic.

I think it must be a very healthy and positive thing to consider what you believe in the scriptures, and also to reflect on those passages that are less kind.

I wasn’t able to maintain my faith and am no longer a Christian, but I tend to be quite literal, and you may find a positive and enriching way to resolve this conflict. It could even strengthen your faith and help you to build a more nuanced set of beliefs.

hyperbyke · 09/11/2021 12:12

@glimpsing

Every believer seems to have a slightly different idea of what God thinks is right.

You could pray and ask God...

Pray to something I don't believe in?

Even if I did, he seems to give everyone different answers.

glimpsing · 09/11/2021 13:30

@hyperbyke

Pray to something I don't believe in?

Even if I did, he seems to give everyone different answers.

There is a hope for church unity within Christianity. It's something that has to be trusted in, taken in good faith as individuals progress in their understanding.

Ephesians 4:12-14
"12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

1 Corinthians 13:12
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

speakout · 09/11/2021 13:37

glimpsing

Perhaps if your god was a little clearer in his dogma there would be no confusion.