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Struggling with Hell

371 replies

ksw0203 · 04/11/2021 15:17

Hi everyone,

I'm a christian but I'm really struggling with the idea of eternal punishment for unbelievers, it just seems very cruel and unlike the God I think I know. Has anyone else struggled with this or has any parts of scripture that could suggest something other than this? I know that Judaism and some sects of early Christianity viewed hell as a temporary punishment that sort of 'refined' people but don't know how reliable this is?

Thanks!

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 04/11/2021 17:26

In other words, the atheists’ bleak view of death as the end of everything.

My death won't be the end of everything, it will only be the end of me! There's nothing bleak about the fact that I didn't exist for all the millennia before I was born, so why would there be anything bleak about not existing after I die?

FTstepmum · 04/11/2021 19:03

@hyperbyke

I think hell is for people who pointedly reject God's grace and forgiveness of us consistently f*g up the world he made in all the ways we do.

So you think non-believers deserve eternal torture?

I didn't mention anything about thinking people deserve eternal torture. You may be making an assumption there.

I don't do faith debates with atheists. It's exhausting and quite honestly, I don't have all the answers.

InkyPinkyParlezVous · 04/11/2021 19:10

I'm a very lapsed Christian, but I do believe that hell is real. I don't like that, but I don't have to to be honest. If it's true its true regardless of what I think.

SweatyYetti · 04/11/2021 19:32

To put it in simple terms I consider hell to be having a hard time and heaven to be having a good time... Heaven can be found and experienced here on earth. It's always good and better with God on your side.

silveryslade · 05/11/2021 10:14

I believe that in heaven there is complete unity with God in harmony. There is no room for egos. Anything which has held onto which goes against God has to be let go of otherwise there couldn't be complete unity and harmony.

Hell is just the opposite. It is a place of ego with resulting divisions, conflicts and disharmony.

silveryslade · 05/11/2021 10:14

'been held onto', that should read.

longwayoff · 05/11/2021 10:45

Relax. Hell is a medieval construct invented by the Church to keep believers in line and make transgressors believe something even worse than their feudal existence awaited beyond death. As was purgatory about which, I think, a Pope said much the same.

hyperbyke · 05/11/2021 11:38

I didn't mention anything about thinking people deserve eternal torture. You may be making an assumption there.

So you don't believe in the old pits of fire interpretation.

Fundays12 · 05/11/2021 11:42

Interesting question my personal view is that many things in the bible have been misinterpreted so churches in days gone by could control people. I believe in god but I do not believe a good who is meant to be forgiving and kind would ever put people to hell for not believing in him. I watched a programme years ago about how the bible was rewritten and translated wrongly it made sense to me.

FTstepmum · 05/11/2021 13:48

@hyperbyke

I didn't mention anything about thinking people deserve eternal torture. You may be making an assumption there.

So you don't believe in the old pits of fire interpretation.

I genuinely don't know what I think it is. The firey pit might well be allegorical, like some other things are in the Bible.

All I know is it's the only place that my Father God won't inhabit, which in my mind makes it a troubled place at best.

It's something that every thinking person needs to consider and make a decision about, if they can.

Then to be content with their decision (even if it changes over time).

And also allow others to have possibly made a different decision without lambasting them. And that goes both ways, for Christians and atheists.

Jesus was not about forcing himself on others and nor will I.

hyperbyke · 05/11/2021 14:16

I genuinely don't know what I think it is. The firey pit might well be allegorical, like some other things are in the Bible.

All I know is it's the only place that my Father God won't inhabit, which in my mind makes it a troubled place at best. It's something that every thinking person needs to consider and make a decision about, if they can.*

But that means that either you disagree with God, or you think that non-believers deserve to end up in hell, be that a fiery pit or something else.

glimpsing · 05/11/2021 15:50

But that means that either you disagree with God, or you think that non-believers deserve to end up in hell, be that a fiery pit or something else.

@hyperbyke, would unbelievers actually want to spend eternity in complete harmonious unity with God, whom they don't believe in, don't believe what He stands for? How could there even be unity in this situation? If someone doesn't believe in God/what He stands for there is a division there - which would involve being apart from/outside of Heaven. If Hell is the opposite to Heaven it involves division and disharmony.

hyperbyke · 05/11/2021 16:08

@glimpsing

But that means that either you disagree with God, or you think that non-believers deserve to end up in hell, be that a fiery pit or something else.

@hyperbyke, would unbelievers actually want to spend eternity in complete harmonious unity with God, whom they don't believe in, don't believe what He stands for? How could there even be unity in this situation? If someone doesn't believe in God/what He stands for there is a division there - which would involve being apart from/outside of Heaven. If Hell is the opposite to Heaven it involves division and disharmony.

Can't speak for other 'unbelievers' but no, I wouldn't. But I wouldn't particularly want to spend it in a lake of fire or a "troubled place" either.
FTstepmum · 05/11/2021 17:09

@hyperbyke

* I genuinely don't know what I think it is. The firey pit might well be allegorical, like some other things are in the Bible.

All I know is it's the only place that my Father God won't inhabit, which in my mind makes it a troubled place at best. It's something that every thinking person needs to consider and make a decision about, if they can.*

But that means that either you disagree with God, or you think that non-believers deserve to end up in hell, be that a fiery pit or something else.

I'll be honest; neither of the two options you have given to me really appeal Wink

God doesn't want any part of his creation to be in a place without him - and a true believer in Jesus shouldn't either.

This is how I understand it:

  1. God is complete love and perfection. He made and loves every one of us. He wants us to love him in return.

  2. Because God isn't manipulative and controlling, we got (and get) to choose how we live and if we love him.

  3. The human race rebels against God, in varying degrees of selfishness, making a mess of our lives and relationships.

  4. Incredibly, God still loves us and wants us. He came to earth as a man to settle it (quite literally once and for all) by dying sacrificially, atoning for the mess we have made.

  5. God wholly forgives and welcomes back those who know they need his forgiveness for their contribution to the mess.

But there is a flipside.

God will not stand to be mocked. It's known in the Bible as the only "unforgivable sin". It is not possible for God to abide with those who hate or deride him.

Because he is merciful in his love, he will forgive those people a million times over, and more, if they seek it.

That's my twopenneth; nowt else to say.

PurBal · 05/11/2021 17:13

I believe in universal salvation.

glimpsing · 05/11/2021 17:34

But I wouldn't particularly want to spend it in a lake of fire or a "troubled place" either.

@hyperbyke, but there will be conflict, if you get lots of individuals egos with differing opinions who won't let go of their point of view, their way of seeing things. As I said it's the opposite to unity and harmony more like everyone for themselves.

speakout · 05/11/2021 17:36

PurBal
I believe in universal salvation.

Salvation from what?

I am a perfectly functional homo sapien- with all that entails.
I have no sin, I am in no need of salvation, forgiveness, redemption or any of that shit.

Level75 · 05/11/2021 17:45

I think you're rightly struggling because it doesn't make sense. I was raised Catholic and I remember asking these sorts of questions as a young teen. Like if God is all good how did he create the devil - simple stuff like that. The answer always seemed to be 'ignore the inconsistencies, just have faith' or some convoluted explanation about how the devil wasn't really the devil but something more conceptual. The 'answers' here from believers reflect that.

hyperbyke · 05/11/2021 18:03

I'll be honest; neither of the two options you have given to me really appeal wink

And yet you seem to have no problem with the idea of people who don't agree with you suffering for the rest of eternity.

FTstepmum · 05/11/2021 18:56

@hyperbyke

I'll be honest; neither of the two options you have given to me really appeal wink

And yet you seem to have no problem with the idea of people who don't agree with you suffering for the rest of eternity.

You are making more assumptions about me that are incorrect.

In my previous post I said:

"God doesn't want any part of his creation to be in a place without him - and a true believer in Jesus shouldn't either."

The thought of people suffering for eternity is horrifying. I wouldn't even wish it on my abusive ex husband.

JumperandJacket · 07/11/2021 17:10

Belief in universal salvation has a really long and interesting history in the Christian church- would recommend this as a starting point en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christian_universalism

PoppyMonth · 07/11/2021 17:13

I was raised a strict Catholic.

I reconcile myself with the very strong belief that heaven, hell and everything in between is all a load of bollocks.

ColouringPencils · 07/11/2021 17:44

You know when you have done something terrible, and you are stuck there with yourself feeling guilt and shame for your failings and see no way of correcting it. When the people who love you can no longer reach you. Even if you haven't experienced it personally, you can imagine this state, where you feel yourself unworthy of forgiveness, kindness and love because you were so terrible. This is what I think hell is: a state of mind. I don't believe in anything more permanent than that. I don't imagine that it is anything to do with God (but a separation from God makes sense to me). I suppose I think of being with God as a state of mind too.

PeachesPumpkin · 07/11/2021 21:50

I don’t think hell is a fiery pit, I think it is separation from God - nothingness.
I think after death you meet God and you choose to go to heaven or to reject God. Anyone can choose to accept God and go to heaven, and I think when faced with God’s love and forgiveness everyone will choose heaven. I think no one would choose hell.

PeachesPumpkin · 07/11/2021 21:52

I have found these people great - you can have some good debates - they don’t mind what you ask.
christianity.org.uk/