Struggling with Hell

[ksw0203]

Hi everyone,

I'm a christian but I'm really struggling with the idea of eternal punishment for unbelievers, it just seems very cruel and unlike the God I think I know. Has anyone else struggled with this or has any parts of scripture that could suggest something other than this? I know that Judaism and some sects of early Christianity viewed hell as a temporary punishment that sort of 'refined' people but don't know how reliable this is?

Thanks!

@glimpsing

But that is subjective

It is my hope, I am acting in Gods will which is not subjective. But I am certainly not perfect, so it could be. 🤷‍♀️

If they disagreed that it was harmful or dangerous, how long would you go on about it for?

If they disagreed that it was harmful or dangerous, how long would you go on about it for?

For as long as they would listen unless I changed my own mind. How long would you go on about something you felt was dangerous and harmful?

@glimpsing

If they disagreed that it was harmful or dangerous, how long would you go on about it for?

For as long as they would listen unless I changed my own mind. How long would you go on about something you felt was dangerous and harmful?

In my experience badgering and preaching at people won't change their mind. Its just done to make the person doing the preaching feel superior. Most of those who did the same to me about my sexuality or lack of faith, I now stay away from.

I hardly give sermons, @depremesnil. Look at us here. I'm just responding to your comments. You don't have to ask me things, or comment on what I say either. 🤷‍♀️

Just as in real life, if someone is seeking validation from me on something I disagree with I find that very difficult to give. I suspect a lot of people would. However, I don't ram my views down their throat on the subject every time I see them. If it got to that, then I think some time apart would be best.

@glimpsing

I hardly give sermons, *@depremesnil*. Look at us here. I'm just responding to your comments. You don't have to ask me things, or comment on what I say either. 🤷‍♀️

Just as in real life, if someone is seeking validation from me on something I disagree with I find that very difficult to give. I suspect a lot of people would. However, I don't ram my views down their throat on the subject every time I see them. If it got to that, then I think some time apart would be best.

So you don't say anything unless they ask? Sounds fair.

So you don't say anything unless they ask? Sounds fair.

I tend to keep to topics of conversation and give my perspective on whatever is being discussed. My perspective obviously is affected by my beliefs as everyone's is. Unless it's something I'm concerned about and I would like to hear their take on it - see if that reassures me / swap ideas that way.

Concerning my Christianity I find it does have relevance in everyday, normal life. If I know someone is hostile towards Christianity but they are friendly I might offer my perspective (which is affected by my beliefs) and rephrase what the Bible says, without quoting directly. Yet if we discussed beliefs I would say that mine are based in Christianity.

I think one of the most difficult but incredibly comforting and rewarding aspects of Christian belief is the hope (and consequential faith) it offers. I find much of modern life is geared up to encouraging us to worry and presenting a hopeless picture. People are often offended by hope yet I wouldn't be without it. It inspires me. But it can feel lonely sometimes when people don't share your hopes.

In my experience badgering and preaching at people won't change their mind. Its just done to make the person doing the preaching feel superior

Likewise.

'Speaking in love' always seemed to involve lecturing and hectoring. Confidential matters also occasionally seemed to warrant broadcasting to a wider audience under the guise of a gossipy prayer meeting.

'Speaking in love' always seemed to involve lecturing and hectoring. Confidential matters also occasionally seemed to warrant broadcasting to a wider audience under the guise of a gossipy prayer meeting.

It shouldn't. My hope is that people wouldn't feel the need to use the inverted commas if they were to use that phrase or similar about what I had said. It has reminded me, though, how language can trigger people - negativity and positively.

Although, my DS has said I should do TED talks, although he seems to enjoy our conversations and often prolongs them!

@glimpsing

So you don't say anything unless they ask? Sounds fair.

I tend to keep to topics of conversation and give my perspective on whatever is being discussed. My perspective obviously is affected by my beliefs as everyone's is. Unless it's something I'm concerned about and I would like to hear their take on it - see if that reassures me / swap ideas that way.

Concerning my Christianity I find it does have relevance in everyday, normal life. If I know someone is hostile towards Christianity but they are friendly I might offer my perspective (which is affected by my beliefs) and rephrase what the Bible says, without quoting directly. Yet if we discussed beliefs I would say that mine are based in Christianity.

If only all Christians were able to refrain from giving unsolicited "advice".

If only all Christians were able to refrain from giving unsolicited "advice".

I don't think it's only Christians guilty of giving unsolicited 'advice', though!

But glimpsing you did say am genuinely worried about someone harming themselves or others, I would act in love and do all I could do to stop them.

All you could do doesn't sound like only offering advice if asked- it sounds like poking your beak in.

All you could do doesn't sound like only offering advice if asked- it sounds like poking your beak in.

@speakout, you are correct advice is not the only action I could take. As no doubt, you are aware, if physical actions are inappropriate, I have the action to act through my spiritual practice and engage with God's power.

@CathyorClaire

In my experience badgering and preaching at people won't change their mind. Its just done to make the person doing the preaching feel superior

Likewise.

'Speaking in love' always seemed to involve lecturing and hectoring. Confidential matters also occasionally seemed to warrant broadcasting to a wider audience under the guise of a gossipy prayer meeting.

I'm always sceptical of the 'speaking in love' phrase because you're right, it often means here everyone, come and have a gossip. Thankfully I've never been in any churches like this but I've heard of them.

Like @glimpsing says so well, I'm very much about listening to others and responding to where they are. I'm grateful my church culture is like this. We speak the gospel of course, but we don't ram stuff at people unasked, and in personal life I answer questions or gently talk about my story if warranted.

I'm always sceptical of the 'speaking in love' phrase because you're right, it often means here everyone, come and have a gossip. Thankfully I've never been in any churches like this but I've heard of them.

@Madhairday

Yes, I think we have to ever be careful about the degradation of language. Just as when terms of diagnosis start being used as insults due to prejudice, phrases such as 'speaking in love' are misappropriated so begin to mean something very different to what originally intended to people. It's an important reminder to stay 'in the world' and not isolate or become a clique so we can actually communicate what we mean instead of triggering past hurts.

This is a very interesting thread. I have been recently challenged by one of my teenage children, who is not a Christian ,on the idea of hell. He said he could not think of any crime that would deserve eternal punishment so why would a just God think it okay. The verse " The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" is one I have been thinking of a lot recently and that seems to support the idea that followers of Christ will live eternally with Him, but those who reject him just die. As to what happens to those who have not heard the Good News, I believe God to be just and to know their hearts so it is not something I worry about. I do know for sure that there will be plenty surprises in heaven. I love for example that in the examples of people of great faith, Rahab the prostitute is listed. The Bible talks of people saying Lord Lord and Him not knowing them.I don't think it is for me to say who will go to Heaven. That is God's job.

@vdbfamily

This is a very interesting thread. I have been recently challenged by one of my teenage children, who is not a Christian ,on the idea of hell. He said he could not think of any crime that would deserve eternal punishment so why would a just God think it okay. The verse " The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" is one I have been thinking of a lot recently and that seems to support the idea that followers of Christ will live eternally with Him, but those who reject him just die. As to what happens to those who have not heard the Good News, I believe God to be just and to know their hearts so it is not something I worry about. I do know for sure that there will be plenty surprises in heaven. I love for example that in the examples of people of great faith, Rahab the prostitute is listed. The Bible talks of people saying Lord Lord and Him not knowing them.I don't think it is for me to say who will go to Heaven. That is God's job.

Your poor son, having a homophobic parent who thinks he's going to hell.

voldr....I have no idea how you extrapolated that from what I said there.... unless you are the person who pops up on all my threads with a name change, calling me a ' fundie' . What the verse I quoted suggests to me is that maybe those who don't believe do just die but do not receive the gift of eternal life. But then you are not really interested in the thread are you?

@vdbfamily

voldr....I have no idea how you extrapolated that from what I said there.... unless you are the person who pops up on all my threads with a name change, calling me a ' fundie' . What the verse I quoted suggests to me is that maybe those who don't believe do just die but do not receive the gift of eternal life. But then you are not really interested in the thread are you?

I'm basing it towards your posts on other threads. You are homophobic and preachy and the idea of you acting like this towards your own children is sad.

www.pewforum.org/2021/11/23/views-on-the-afterlife/

Even most Americans who believe in heaven think that non-Christians can go there. The vile views displayed by some on these thread and very much in the minority.