Did God Actually Command OT Brutality

[headinhands]

More to the point how do you believe in an all loving God but have such passages in the bible?

Have your opinions changed over the course of your faith?

That might be how you see it, I see it as God working in each time and leading humanity on.

And HeHasRisen, quite frankly your views on homosexuality are disgusting.

If you ever believed that God performed a miracle to help someone then he's a monster for the times he didn't stop a child being raped surely?

Furthermore if you could do something to prevent a child being abused you would, every time. But if you didn't and later on were held accountable to why you didn't prevent it when you could, you're not going to get much respect for maintaining that you think its wrong to meddle with someone's free will.

If God stopped every rape, then people would say he is a monster for stopping every murder. If God stopped every murder, people would say he is a monster for not stopping every burglary (people report feeling violated). The truth is, God would have to remove ALL sin to be fair.

One day he will. But if He had to wipe out all sin, He would have to wipe us out too, because sin is in us! It is only His longsuffering mercy that keeps us here, giving us chance after chance to turn to him, and live with him in eternity.

It's not my view, don't shoot the messenger!

And out of interest, can you tell me what the solution is for a paedophile then?

I said I wasn't comparing. I was using a completely different example, one that I have had experience with personally. You could equally accuse me of comparing a paraplegic to a homosexual, I wasn't doing that either.

The point that it raises a question of whether a person can still have a fulfilling life is the only similarity.

Your views and your arguments are not only disgraceful but they are also hideously offensive.

Homosexuality isn't something you can compare with paedophilia.

Nor is it a perversion.

You can't get out of it by saying 'don't shoot the messenger' as you clearly believe these things to be true, as you have advanced the argument.

You make my flesh crawl.

I mentioned disability, erectile dysfunction AND paedophilia to raise the question of whether people can have fulfilling lives without sex.

Funny how nobody is accusing me of comparing paralysis or ED to homosexuality!

I started talking about paedophilia because I have been at the bad end of someone who struggles with that, and I made it clear before I disclosed this, that I was in no way comparing the two.

And HeHasRisen, quite frankly your views on homosexuality are disgusting

Which demonstrates the lack of hindsight God had with his chosen method of communication. Two Christians, both believe their position is right. Both believe they have the same God guiding them, both believe they have the Holy Spirit within them. Both using the bible. So how can they hold opposite views? Neither of you can say the other is wrong, risen is taking a literal interpretation of passages the same way other believers are still interpreting other passages as literal.

The only way one can say the other is wrong is to stand outside of the bible and use your own morality today, and in doing so also demonstrates that not only do we not need a religion, but that religion can force otherwise kind people to hold offensive views.

The truth is, God would have to remove ALL sin to be fair.

Well do it then! Btw, if your idea of a 'no sin environment' is so ludicrous what do you imagine heaven to be like?

Its not ludicrous, headinhands. What I have said, if you read back, is that it WILL happen. Just not yet.

God has his timing, not ours.

It's hardly news that people of the same faith can disagree about something. But we are both probably happy to affirm the Nicene creed. Important issue though homosexuality is, it isn't central to the Christian message.

Are they to live without happiness? Are they to live asexually?

But gay relationships are with other gay people, it's a two way thing that they both consent too and both want and it's not hurting anyone. Peadophiles can't have a two way relationship because the other individual is a child and not their cognitive equal in any way.

Can people who suffer paraplegia or erectile dysfunction have a meaningful life?

But they are very real reasons why something physical might make their sex life more difficult. There's no good reason why two gay people should not enjoy sex together if they both want it and are both over the age of consent etc etc.

Why doesn't God want gay people to enjoy sex together? Aside from it not being 'part of his plan', why exactly? Because if you have no idea then what you're doing by promoting your view has nothing to do with morality and is just blind obedience, which is frightening.

So what's the answer to a paedophile, who will argue that they were born that way?

As I say, I am not pro-paedophila, since people are getting the wrong end of the stick! As I said, I was raped by one. But I sympathise with the fight, because as I said, we all have some trait we'd rather not have that we fight with, be it predisposition to lying, stealing, anger, greed.

God has his timing, not ours.

But sometimes he does perform miracles. One persons baby was cured of cancer while another died. If he heals one he should heal them all. If I had the ability to perform miracles and I used it to heal one of my children but left another to die, am I loving?

As I said, there are likely to be reasons we don't know about. But from our limited knowledge, over 50% of HIV/AIDS is linked to homosexuality. There are other health problems directly related, and perhaps God decided it is not healthy physically as well as for the human race to progress? Who knows, I am only guessing here. The bible doesn't give a reason. It doesn't give a reason for not killing or lying or stealing either, but those rules we accept.

headinhands, can you answer my question to you now that I've answered yours to me?

(question asked at 11:39)

t's hardly news that people of the same faith can disagree about something.

But you're not just members of the same knitting club disagreeing about what cake to serve at the next meeting. You both think you're in touch with God 24/7 and able to receive messages. But he is telling you both different things. Why would he do that. You both take your faith seriously so how does this happen, it makes the Holy Spirit look very ineffective.

So what's the answer to a paedophile, who will argue that they were born that way?

Firstly, I don't care wether someone who is gay is born that way or chose to be gay 5 minutes ago. Their body, they can do what they want so long as it's not abusive and consensual.

As for paedophiles, I think as we progress as a society and our understanding improves I hope we will see more people who have these feelings seeking help. And that that would lead to less children being abused.

It doesn't give a reason for not killing or lying or stealing either, but those rules we accept.

Wait, what!! You don't understand why it's not a good idea to do those things??? You don't think the fact that it hurts people and causes distress is the reason?

When you say help, help for what though? To change their ways or to live happily without sex?

So until you became a Christian you thought lying and killing was okay, but now you don't do those things because God tells you not to. But seriously, I'm fairly certain you didn't think those things were okay befor, and I'd like you to explain how you had already decided it wasn't a good idea to kill people.

When you say help, help for what though? To change their ways or to live happily without sex?

I've seen a few programmes about treatments for pedophiles to manage their peadophilia. Counselling, medication, support groups, pretty much the same sort of stuff that is currently available for anyone coping with distressing feelings. But as I said, until as a society we are more open to the idea of helping these people many are too scared to seek help. Can you imagine how awful it must be for someone to feel sexually attracted to children in our current climate and how that impedes them seeking support.