Can you "choose" to believe in God, if you just genuinely don't?

[aquestionwithnoanswer]

Namechanger as this is just a bit too personal.

Basically as the title says. I can't help it, I believe facts. I believe science and proof and things that I can "know."

I was raised in Christianity, can quote the Bible chapter and verse, educated about many religions, surrounded by people who have faith, but I cannot bring myself to believe in God - any God.

The thing is, I want to. For various reasons, I really want to believe in God.

Do you choose it? How can I "make" myself believe it? I certainly don't feel it. If I am honest, it all makes very little sense, it is illogical, it is not rational. My mum answers that with "that's why it's called faith!" but that is not really helpful.

How do you get there from here?

Please don't "shut up" Springy! You articulate your beliefs so well, it is very appreciated, you have given me so much to think about! And thank you, simply for saying that "yes, it's enough."

In answer to your question about when the "steel set in" about God, it wasn't actually about God and it wasn't all at once. Yes, raised Christian, v. Christian, v. heavily involved in the Church. Questioned as a young child, especially being taught that other religions were wrong and ours was right. Went through the typical early teenage questioning, elected not to join the church, but developed a strong feeling that the various faiths were what motivated a large part of the course of humanity and that I must learn more about them all to decide what I believed. Studied the major world religions, which was a turning point for me. Found much of the history repugnant. Many vile behaviours in the name of religion. Especially towards women. Sadly, that is not just historical, there are many practises that continue today in various religions that I find abhorrent. Turned me strongly against organized religion from that point on.

But it wasn't about God at that point. I stopped going to church, but still prayed.

I then went on to a scientific course of study and ultimately career. Basic things like what constitutes a fact, logic, etc., fundamentally changed the way I thought. It made me question why I prayed. I certainly didn't agree with any form of organized religion, yet I still prayed, particularly when thankful or scared. It was like my default setting. I sat down with a pen and paper and wrote out my own "beliefs", which I found were easily challenged and could not be supported in fact. I stopped praying.

Long answer to that one, sorry!

Juule has raised two excellent points that have been definite stumbling blocks for me on this road, and the example of our own children illustrates it well.

MrsArchie I'm sorry for what you are going through. It sounds as though your beliefs give you some kind of peace. With all my heart I hope that you are right about seeing loved ones again.

CheerfulYank that keeps happening to my posts too. I think you can forgive your ipad and blame this thread! Thanks for taking the time to re-type it though!

Oh no problem agreeing to that DutchOma - I am light years away from perfect! I only meant that I consciously try to do what's "right" whether I like it or not, to be a kind person above all, to live a peaceful and respectful life and help others where I can. Meaning, I guess, that despite having lived my adult life without believing in God, I still think I'm a good person, and that while I do that for ME because it is what I believe is important, I would sort of hope that if God is out there judging whether or not I can qualify to get into his Heaven, that that would count for something. If that horrible run-on sentence makes any sense!

aw now look here, I wasn't fishing

and please don't go on about a. the length of your posts and 2. your grammar and sentence structure. It shows me up don't you know.

Of course man is intrinsically moral and good and therefore religions push on that to find someone who needs to be seen as more good more pure than others. eg. Aisha or Mary supposedly being a virgin or a man being without any sin yet he curses and condemns others.

PLEASE NOTICE THAT jjkm has posted a link to the book of mormon which has nothing to do with the bible of Christianity and is all to do with the cult of Mormonism.

OP be very aware that the cults always seek out those they perceive to be weakened and receptive to their deceit especially Mormons will attempt to persuade you they are chrisitan with a bible in their hand but will only direct you to the little book of mormon for guidance. A book written by a conman only 150 or so years ago.

It is late, again, only this time because I've spent a long time trying to write a post. I've ended up deleting it because there is no way I can write about it without outing myself.

In the most vague of terms, something very, very strange happened to me early this morning. Something that I can't explain.

I know I'm hyper-sensitive to that right now, so I'm just trying to get it all straight in my head. I wanted to post about it here to get your opinions, but no matter how I write it, it is by it's nature too revealing.

The truth is that despite directly asking for something, this thing that has happened makes me extremely uncomfortable. Being unable to rationalize it makes me feel a bit sick to my stomach.

Keep telling myself that I'm blowing it out of proportion because I am in search of something. But it was WEIRD.

My usual self keeps saying "of course there is a logical explanation, you just need to figure it out." Except I can't figure it out and saying that that makes me extremely uncomfortable is an enormous understatement.

Must try to sleep. Will catch up tomorrow.

Novack I think that was rude. Jjkm is trying to help. And btw I know a fair number of Mormons and while we may not have the same beliefs, they are without exception extraordinarily kind people.

AQuestion I hope you're all right. Whatever happened, it sounds like it gave you quite a turn! IMO there isn't always a rational explanation for things, actually. :)

I'm really sorry to hear that OP. Is there anyone you can talk it through with? Better out than in, I say

You say this happened early in the morning... and you were posting very late that same night: are you getting enough sleep? Do try to keep your sleep as regular as you can, try to fix a regular bed time. Are you not sleeping because you aren't going to bed early enough, or are you not able to sleep? You are going through a very trying time so do keep an eye on looking after yourself physically [I'm going to be a bit prescriptive now]: regular and nutritious food, water, exercise - you can't underestimate these, so simple but so effective. eg crap food/drinks can have a drastic effect on mood and sleep, particularly if you are feeling vulnerable: try to keep them to a minimum. Flush out your system with water - stand at the sink and pour a glass of water and drink it down there and then? Exercise - natur'es natural serotonin booster, even if it's walking when you would normally use the car. Kalms are very good too for supporting through a trying time and helping to regulate sleep (though check with your GP that the herbs don't interfere with any meds you may be taking).

Now on to the emotional: fear can get you in its grip (particularly if you are generally feeling ropey). Personally, I refuse to let it have any sway, regardless what is going on. Obviously there is natural fear, which is healthy, but there's the freaky type which does nobody any good at all! Put what happened to one side and reconnect with the normal, everyday flow of things. Whatever it was that happened it doesn't need to take centre stage - in fact, don't let it. All's well, you don't need to fear.

(Sorry to be a mummy about all this but sometimes we need outside input to help us keep balanced, particularly if we are facing challenging times. I'm always amazed that, after a crisis of some kind (physical or emotional) I didn't think to do this or that - it was because I was knocked off my perch a bit that I didn't think to do very ordinary things that would have made a big difference.)

I'm so sorry that you had an experience that made you feel afraid and uncomfortable. We are here for you either by way of the board or by way of a personal message in loving concern, not to put pressure on you one way or the other.

second that - pm if you need to OP xx

Springy if there was a 'like' button I would be clicking it for your posts, especially the one above at 13:53 :)

OP I hope you are OK, and feel able to keep sharing this journey with us here.

I haven't got much to add at this point, springy and DO and CY are saying it all so well, but wanted you to know I'm here as well and praying if that means anything. :)

No, not sleeping well, not used to late nights. Trouble getting to sleep, and then when I wake in the night my head is spinning. Lots of things. Basically whenever there's a moment's peace, my brain starts churning. I eat well and exercise and love to drink copious amounts of water. What is Kalms?

No I haven't spoken to anyone irl about it. Wanted to, but honestly, I am quite afraid that anyone who knows me would think I'd gone mad. Think you're right about putting it off to the side Springy. It is upsetting that I can't explain it. But then I give myself a bit of a slap upside the head, because I have been sitting here asking for something just like that. How ridiculous am I! Hopeless, I am.

Thank you all for your supportive words, it is very kind. I am not sure where things will go from here but I need to get my head back on straight.

I may post my experience once I can work it out a bit.

sorry about the health lecture

You're sounding calmer OP, which is great. Kalms are an over the counter (widely available) herbal preparation (calming herbs like valerian, I think?). Very good, highly recommended if you're having trouble winding down. Available in the UK!

I'm up too late myself. Have a good break from boiling your head

I'm just wondering whether the experience just 'spooked' you because you could not understand it or because the experience itself was frightening. I think it would make a difference to how you deal with it.

How are you feeling today op?

Much better, thanks Madhairday. Springy speaks sense and putting it aside was a good idea. Much better than my brain stuck on repeat saying "there must be a reasonable xplanation for this, there must be a reasonable explanation for this", repeat ad nauseum. I have given myself a bit of a talking to yesterday, as I have much more important things to think about than trying to explain that.

Springy please don't be sorry about the health advice at all! It is good advice and was thoughtful of you. I generally don't like medications but may check out Kalms if sleep doesn't sort itself soon.

DutchOma, definitely because I could not understand it. It was not frightening, just shocking for me because it is as of yet inexplicable. It was outside of my frame of reference. But not at all bad.

I'm glad about that AQ

Me too

Thank you both. :)

I'm still here, just lots to think about, all a bit overwhelming right now.

He is not wanting me to pressure myself further and seems quite happy with my being open to, well, whatever comes. It is a tremendous leap from where I came from. Yet I am wanting to be able to deliver more. I've not told him about my experience the other day, have been trying not to think about that, tbh, because I feel I am contradicting myself. Asking for evidence, saying I'm open to it, and then being shaken by what might be an answer, or at least a pointer to an answer. Bit hypocritical.

Let go and let God. You are not being hypocritical by being overwhenlmed, you are being honest to God. Feel the love and smell the roses, it's ok.

Keep on hanging in there and getting it out here. we're here to listen. Be easy on yourself and don't stress lots about it all. I like DO's sentence - let go and let God. take care.

I like DO's sentence - let go and let God

So do I, odd as that might seem.
If he's real and as DO, springy and madhair think, that's the right thing to do.
If he's not - its far better than tying yourself in knots. I really think you've done all that's humanly possible.

I must say "Let go and let God" a million times a day. :) Along with "it is what it is, now I have to let it do what it does."

Sorry to be contrary here - it's a great phrase but somehow it gives me the impulse to do the opposite

The one that does it for me is 'Be still and know that I am God' - something about that melts away the stress and struggling

Each to her own I guess.

Dear Lord, girlfriend, you do give yourself a blarsty hard time! Be as contrary as you like (see, I was ^^): this is your journey and you have a right to change your mind. Leave the H word out please, not required in this instance imo.