Can you "choose" to believe in God, if you just genuinely don't?

[aquestionwithnoanswer]

Namechanger as this is just a bit too personal.

Basically as the title says. I can't help it, I believe facts. I believe science and proof and things that I can "know."

I was raised in Christianity, can quote the Bible chapter and verse, educated about many religions, surrounded by people who have faith, but I cannot bring myself to believe in God - any God.

The thing is, I want to. For various reasons, I really want to believe in God.

Do you choose it? How can I "make" myself believe it? I certainly don't feel it. If I am honest, it all makes very little sense, it is illogical, it is not rational. My mum answers that with "that's why it's called faith!" but that is not really helpful.

How do you get there from here?

aquestion, sometimes there isn't a logical explanation, within the frame of reference that we have and if you are a logical and scientific person, that can be irritating to say the least!
But do take good care of yourself too. You are also going through an awful time.

I'm sorry you're facing such a loss, OP. I don't believe in any gods: as some other posters have said, when we die the atoms that were us go back into the flow of life/energy and mix with other atoms to become other things and that's that - which is no bad thing.
This is part of a popular funeral reading which (irrespective of religions) gets to the point:

I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.

I think it's fine to stretch your own personal truth to comfort the dying, or the bereaved eg to say something along the lines of 'No one really knows, but I love you and I won't stop loving you and you will be alive in my heart and mind and still with me and we may well see each other again in a way we can't understand now.'

It's not really possible to overcome logic without either brainwashing, heavy drugs or a good bang on the head: don't pursue any of those. Best wishes in this dark time.

As stated before I'm quite into God myself, but I think what SGB has suggested as something to say is lovely and doesn't really go against what you believe, does it?

I hope you're doing all right today. Lots of love and good wishes coming to you.

I expect this will likely sound like a really dumb question, but what does it mean exactly, "Let go and let God"? My guess is that it means I should just allow whatever is to be and basically that's where we are, in terms of being willing to accept whatever comes and hoping for a wonderful surprise. I'd still secretly much prefer a tangible way to know though, as unreasonable as that sounds.

Springy your quote is actually in the Bible somewhere, isn't it? It sounds familiar but I can't place it. Thank you, for saying no H word required here. I have been beating myself up a bit over that.

No, it doesn't CheerfulYank. In fact, SGB's poem actually fits well with what I've believed for most of my life (basically what SGB has posted re: where atoms/energy go). Plus, that reading is utterly beautiful and comforting and has tears streaming down my face atm.

You're exactly right, Chipmonkey, it is irritating for me to not find a logical explanation to something. I am starting to learn to accept that there may not always be one within my limited frame of reference, but it's still under my skin, iykwim.

Not into brainwashing or hard drugs SGB, but sometimes feel that a good bang on the head might be what I need!

Yes, I think you've got it in your first para. The thing about something 'tangible' is that its not how faith is supposed to work.

I think what it means (at least what I meant by it) is that I would hope you could come to a point where you accepted that your own understanding is limited and you would allow God to speak to you in whatever way He has spoken to you.

Be still and know that I am God is Psalm 46:10.

Why don't you ask him for a tangible way?

God doesn't do tangible, I've found. That would be far too easy!

really? hmm Jesus did tangible and he says we will do more than he did. I know you were being slightly tongue-in-cheek chipmonkey but I really don't think God has to be 'difficult'. It's not a test/exam, some deep mystery that you're supposed to work out, like an enlightenment or something deep and solemn and woo. imo you can work out/do deep mysteries with him and be solemn if that's your thing; but God can also be remarkably simple, accessible. ie you can meet him where you're at. And, yes, you can ask for tangible imo.

Brace yourself, mind

SGB sums it up briliantly. As you know once you die your matter will jsut become other parts fo carbon in the universe and one day those carbon particles will be part of any other thing you can think of.

God myths are just untangible myths that help some people get a handle on these scientific facts which is why most scientists don't follow any of the superstitions except those who do so and will freely admit that they do so jsut to enjoy the social side of churches and have no belief in the jesus myths as anything other than some nice stories. In the same way they aow their children to believe in the tooth fairy or santa claus

Somewhat of a generalisation there Novack. I know plenty of scientists/rather extremely intelligent people who fully and completely believe in God and live their lives to reflect this. You could get the social side from anything really. Not a whole lot of point in paying lip service to something because of the niceness of church life - church coffee would have to be a whole lot better, for one

Hope you are ok OP. I am with springy - I think God does tangible - certainly has been my experience.

Go easy on yourself.

I do like SGBs poem, it is beautiful, but disagree with it

And yet some scientists are quite religious. :)

Scientist do not make good coffee that i am aware of madhairday.I think you need a better chef. There is no tangible proof of a god but there is more than enough proof that the religions like cristianity are based on nothing more than myths and superstition with. Of course some scientists are religious but not one who work in the relevant fields.

You are of course free to follow any superstition you like to help you get through your days. It's a good crutch for many. What you do in your own home and in your own churches is entirely up to you so long as you are not taking advantage fo the poor unscrupulously conning them out of money etc.

Springy, I have had lots of tangible signs, that convince me. But I can't describe them as proof which I would like to be able to do.

Novack, I am not in a position to be able to tell my dd about the tooth fairy. My dd died last October. Instead she gives me little signs to make her presence felt. Role reversal if you like.

That's up to you if it makes you feel better so be it and there is plenty of study by physiologist that will prove it is just your imagination playing tricks on you, but doesn't mean you don't need to enjoy your feelings.

I didn't imagine toys moving on their own and making noise.

Riiiiight.

'There is no tangible proof of a god but there is more than enough proof that the religions like cristianity are based on nothing more than myths and superstition with.'

No, there are theories.

And to stick in my two penn'orth... I probably tend to agree with novak but I don't really think this is the best thread for this line of debate. There's plenty of threads from time to time which are.

Extraordinarily poor taste Novack.

OP has posted that she wants to believe in God. Posters have responded to that request, mostly carefully. She has not said she doesn't want to believe in God so imo this thread is not a discussion of whether God exists. You're not answering the q Novack. If you can't answer the q, do find another thread where you can discuss the non-existance of God to your heart's content - of which there are plenty on MN.

Added to which, if I had to rely on church for my social life I'd top myself now. But that is, no doubt, another matter and not answering the q.

Added to which

I wonder what you mean by "relevant" fields. There are religious scientists of all sorts and I wonder at your mass generalizations. But as Grimma said this is neither the time nor the place.

OP I wish you the best.

ChipMonkey I believe you. Wholeheartedly. :)

I'm sorry Chipmonkey, this thread was not intended to be a debate in any way. And fwiw, I sincerely hope you have received some small comfort from the things that have happened.

I am trying to find a way to believe in God, or maybe even more specifically, an afterlife in which we can be reunited with or at least somehow contact those we love. Despite a lifetime of thinking, well, the opposite of that. Basically an argument with myself, which is a surprisingly difficult thing to undertake. The posters on this thread have given me so very much to consider, have shared so much, and for the most part have not judged me despite my struggling and confusion. For this I am very grateful.

I actually have asked for something tangible, in my initial attempt at prayer. Then, maybe a week or so later, something quite strange and thus far inexplicable happened, and frankly it scared me a bit. Not because it was scary as such, but because I am as of yet unable to rationalize it to any degree.

So I feel a bit of a fool now, asking for something tangible, on the off chance that that was what I asked for!

But I have come to realize something fairly significant for me.

The fact that I was scared by it, can't find a logical explanation for it, and even remotely considering that it could possibly be a response to my prayer..........is something.

What I mean by that is, even six months ago, I'd have thought "that was weird" or "I must find out what happened there someday."

The fact that my brain would now, somewhere in it's farthest reaches, even hint at the possibility that it could be an answer to a prayer for proof - is mind boggling.

I'm sure that sounds incredibly minor, but it's not for me.

Thanks, Cheerful.

Novack, for a start, with regard to "enjoying my feelings" as you seem to be somewhat lacking in imagination, perhaps you could go take a peek at your children. Now imagine them dead. And think about whether you could ever "enjoy" any feelings related to the knowledge that they are dead. No? I don't really enjoy any feelings any more, there are feelings that are less bad than other feelings but believe me, I don't "enjoy" the knowledge that my baby daughter still lives in spirit, despite my belief that I will see her again and that she is not reduced to a pack of atoms, I am human enough to want her here with me where she belongs.
With regard to the moving toys, to which I assume is what your "Riiiight" was referring, twice it happened when other people were present and they were actually startled by it. I can also assure you that my powers of telekinesis are fairly non-existant.

Sorry aquestion, cross-posted.( actually, that is appropriate, I was quite cross when I posted!)

I think we are not supposed to know for sure. I think we are placed here in order to learn and we are placed here in isolation from other souls, never knowing exactly what they are thinking or feeling, in order that we ourselves grow and develop. And I don't honestly think we are expected to believe in something we find incredible but I do believe we are expected to be kind to one another.

But that's just me.