Can you "choose" to believe in God, if you just genuinely don't?

[aquestionwithnoanswer]

Namechanger as this is just a bit too personal.

Basically as the title says. I can't help it, I believe facts. I believe science and proof and things that I can "know."

I was raised in Christianity, can quote the Bible chapter and verse, educated about many religions, surrounded by people who have faith, but I cannot bring myself to believe in God - any God.

The thing is, I want to. For various reasons, I really want to believe in God.

Do you choose it? How can I "make" myself believe it? I certainly don't feel it. If I am honest, it all makes very little sense, it is illogical, it is not rational. My mum answers that with "that's why it's called faith!" but that is not really helpful.

How do you get there from here?

AQ - I came across this today (New Scientist, from a couple of weeks ago) - maybe of some relevance?

I do "rote" prayers sometimes, like the Lord's Prayer or Hail Marys (though I am not Catholic) but it's more of...I guess I like the feeling of connection or history, of being part of a very long line of people who have said these things.

Sometimes I just scream out (mentally) "help help help help!" Or "thanks thanks thanks thanks!" Depending on what sort of day it's been :o

When we pray with DS we say "may we who have food remember those who are hungry, may we who are safe remember those who are in danger, may we who are healthy remember those who are sick, and may we who are loved remember those who are lonely."

Otherwise I just talk.

Sometimes I sing "Let It Be"

Certainly makes sense for me Grimma, as the foundation of my career background is analytical thinking. Unfortunately doesn't suggest how to counteract it. I'm guessing it's not something a lot of people actually try to do.

Glad you de-lurked Jaffa.

CheerfulYank your prayer with your DS is quite lovely.

It's great how you seem to believe so strongly yet have sort of an undefined belief system. Must be a good feeling to have that sort of confidence in God.

I've just finished a philosophy essay - Plato and, hang on, what was it... moral rationalism v moral traditionalism (yes that's it) and I thought of you OP! (Don't ask me to talk about it though because my brain is fried.)

I'm not sure why you thought all the shocking goings on on your thread had anything to do with you though. re prayer: you probably won't be surprised to hear that my prayers are generally informal. I talk to God, or pray, all the time, about everything. Chat, really; chew the cud. Nothing (at all) is barred. HOwever, I do have some concentrated times of prayer where I will specifically pray from the bible and, if I come across a prayer in a book somewhere I might pray that. I might write things out sometimes to get it clear in my head what I want to say or where I'm coming from - bullet points I'm afraid but only because I'm the bullet-point type [blush again]. imo prayer is as diverse as the myriad conversations we have every day. I discovered the CofE book of common prayer recently and it blew me away! I was not raised in that tradition so it was a revelation to me. Old hat to a lot of people who are used to it I expect. I use the Lord's Prayer for specific prayers but only because I noticed that my prayers followed those themes and it kept me on track. It came on good authority if you remember rightly.

Talking of nothing barred: you know I deeply believe that there's no point being who you're not with God and, with that in mind, perhaps you could identify what it is that you really want: to see your loved one again after he's gone (you may have done this already with God, or 'god', or whatever). It's good to pinpoint where we're really coming from and - this is absolutely central to my relationship with God - tell it like it is. I always say there's a peace to the truth.

CheerfulYank you made me L O L with your Let it Be (how loveable are you ?!)

AQuestion: CF has definitely got a point. There's only so much trying a person can do to convince him/herself of something that s/he fundamentally doesn't beleive, and if this man is a lovely person who loves you, I doubt he would want you to make yourself really distressed over it.

Springy your essay sounds very interesting, and very difficult to encompass. Loving bullet-point prayer, that would suit me. I have asked specifically for some kind of evidence of an afterlife in my attempt at prayer. I say attempt, and I asked the question earlier, because I don't know if I've done it "right." Not saying there is a right or wrong way because I know there are such varied forms of prayer across various religions and even between individuals within the same religion, but...argh, hard to explain. I am wondering if, when you all pray, if you feel like you're being heard. That is coming out wrong and I don't know how to say it any better. Like you're "getting through." How do you feel or know that?

Better get some sleep, I am not articulating things well, sorry if that was a bit convoluted!

You're absolutely right SGB, he doesn't want me to be distressed over it at all; he is quite happy with our agreed solution wherein I'm simply open to the possibility that I may be wrong and could find a wonderful surprise someday, and that he also may be wrong and if he is, he is not hurting anyone with his beliefs that brought him comfort in this life.

It's all down to me now. I wish I could offer him more because I know how happy he would be if I could find a way to honestly believe what he does. He would be comforted because he believes that faith is the way to his afterlife and would then "know" that we would someday see each other again, somehow. I feel like I at least have to try for him, it would bring him such joy.

And admittedly, my personality is such that when I attempt anything, I give it 100%, iykwim. So, I'm really really trying here.

It is absolutely astonishing how difficult it is to argue with your own logic.

The honest answer to your question: 'how do you know that you are heard?' is 'very often I don't'. Sometimes I get to a stage where I think: 'what's the point? If God is so great He would surely know what I need, it's not rocket science and if it is not going to happen, well, God knows what's best, so there.'
I once got to the stage where I begged God to leave me alone and was clearly told:'my dear child, I can't' Don't ask me how that was relayed to me, I couldn't say, I was sure (and still am) that was God speaking.
It is a matter of faith that I believe God hears and answers prayer, and, as I have said before, my life would have no meaning if I didn't have this relationship with God.

OP I can't begin to imagine how hard this is for you, to be facing losing this dear loved one, and to be wanting with all you are to bring him joy and peace. I think CF and SGB talk a lot of sense in remarking that you cannot be forced into something which is not something you want, and you cannot squeeze yourself into a belief that you do not want/are not ready for.

However, time and again I have observed that it is times like this in life when people find something more, and that this being an emotional journey doesn't preclude it being a valid one. You are using reason as much as anything else, and emotion isn't always a bad thing - in my experience God often works through emotion, which is difficult to explain and quantify, as if I say something like that people will merely say that I am being brainwashed/not using my reason etc etc. All I can say is my journey has included reason and emotion, and one hasn't cancelled out the other. :)

As to how I know God is listening - well, like DO very honestly said, sometimes I don't know, sometimes it feels like a nothingness. Others there is a knowledge, a sense of absolute peace, like I have given over this thing and it is OK. To give a real life example, dd has been having problems at school with bullying. I have wrestled with God over this, screamed even, for answers, for resolution. Every time I came to God I knew God heard, and saw God holding dd. The situation resolved in a clear way in the end and while anyone could easily say that's what would have happened anyway I knew God in it. Just trying to bring some of these airy fairy statements down to earth - that I know God in the nitty gritty of life, and stuff God does is generally not earth shattering - though occasionally can be :)

OP - I hope you can find a peace in your searching, while being true to yourself.

aquestion, after dd died I did a lot of research on Near Death experiences. In most cases, it didn't seem to matter whether someone believed or not, the near death experiences all seemed identical. Would this be something he would buy into, would he take any comfort from that?

Yes, I will share that with him, thanks Chipmonkey. It is also somehow comforting to me, not that that's the focus right now at all.

Thanks DutchOma and MadHairDay, it means a lot that you would both say that sometimes you don't know. Somehow it's encouraging to hear people who are so solid in their faith admit something like that. Makes it seem more, I don't know, achievable/possible.

Keep looking and you might find faith. Maybe read the Bible or go to a prayer group. Perhaps you just need to learn a bit more in order to decide whether you believe or not.