Can you "choose" to believe in God, if you just genuinely don't?

[aquestionwithnoanswer]

Namechanger as this is just a bit too personal.

Basically as the title says. I can't help it, I believe facts. I believe science and proof and things that I can "know."

I was raised in Christianity, can quote the Bible chapter and verse, educated about many religions, surrounded by people who have faith, but I cannot bring myself to believe in God - any God.

The thing is, I want to. For various reasons, I really want to believe in God.

Do you choose it? How can I "make" myself believe it? I certainly don't feel it. If I am honest, it all makes very little sense, it is illogical, it is not rational. My mum answers that with "that's why it's called faith!" but that is not really helpful.

How do you get there from here?

Novak, it is a little bit tasteless to start a ruck with a recently bereaved poster on a thread like this. She isn't hurting anyone with her beliefs and her feelings. Fine to debate and debunk woo on general discussions and I will jump right in with you (there's one about homeopathy ongoing now) but it's usually considered better form to leave the bereaved alone rather than start point-scoring with them.

It's more than a little bit tasteless, I'd say, but I applaud your diplomacy SGB. :)

OP even if you come out of all this not believing what some of us do, I think the fact that you are thinking about things is, at the very least, proof of your great love for this person, and I'm sure that is vastly comforting for him.

I am not a typically religious person and no good at praying "for" things really, but I do like to light candles and think of people and the warmth and comfort and peace I wish for them. I did that for you and your friend last night; I hope that's all right.

Novack, beyond tasteless, really. Thanks SGB for wording it like you did. Your compassion is apparent :)

chipmonkey. I believe you.

It occurs to me that at this point, a philosophy we can all learn something from is Buddhism, with its emphasis on combining Wisdom and Compassion.

Thanks all.

I never claimed to be telekinetic, I said that my telekinetic powers were non-existent. And was being a bit sarky when I said it.

Anyway, thanks to all who believe me and thanks to Grimma and SGB who don't believe me but are being very nice about it.

I've been following this thread but haven't had anything much to contribute so far.

I'm not religious (threeleftfeet summed up my beliefs better than I could), but I do meditate every day. Nothing mystical, I just sit and concentrate on my breathing for 20 minutes and I find that I gain a lot more clarity about what's in my own mind from those 20 minutes of not thinking than I do from hours of thinking. I wonder if it might help you, OP?

I like this meditation website which has a free starter programme.

I sometimes wonder if religious people gain the same kind of clarity from prayer?

There are many different kinds of prayer in the Christian tradition. Taizé prayer for instance involves communal chanting and song, repetition of phrases, meditation, silence and contemplation at a Taizé service.

I didn't see any of the deleted posts but again I'm really sorry that this thread has caused any upset, it was not my intention at all.

I do actually do something called mindfulness meditation, will check out the link, perhaps it is similar. The meditation that I do is not religious. It's just about focusing on the moment that you're in, letting everything else sort of fall away and appreciating this moment for what it is. It is sort of serene and quiet, don't know how else to explain it really. I have also wondered MrsBugsy, if people can achieve similar through their various prayer practises.

I've never really had the nerve to ask this of anyone irl, but if anyone cares to respond to something so very personal, can you tell me HOW you pray? I'm familiar with group prayers and practises and repetitive phrases and the like, but what I mean is, when you are trying to communicate something to God, what are you actually thinking inside your head to make this connection? Is it like a letter, like a one-way thing where you are sending thanks or requests or worship etc., or is it more like a conversation where you are receiving feedback and then communicating both ways? Totally understand if no one wants to answer that though.

Grimma although I am obviously not Buddhist, I have several friends who are and many of the principles that they live by really resonate with me. Very peaceful and compassionate. Thank you for posting the link.

Math I am curious, do you have a background in religious studies? I ask only as your above post is not particularly well known information (imo, of course) unless you have first hand exposure or some kind of training?

Thank you CheerfulYank, it is very kind of you to think of us in that way. I had a grandmother who did that, it is a lovely gesture.

Yes, I think it is mindfulness meditation.

I suppose the difference between meditation and prayer is that religious people believe the answers to their prayers come from God, whereas I would argue that mine come from within. You just have to find a way to stop the chatter of your own mind in order to hear them.

AQ - it wasn't you who caused any upset.

I'm not a Buddhist either, but I reckon some of what they say is pretty universally applicable. If people don't come to this sort of thread without compassion, whatever wisdom they may or may not have is likely to be misplaced.

I love the idea of mindfulness meditation and am a big fan of but never actually sit down to do it!

My prayers, if they are not 'formula' prayers, which I say before going to sleep (Lighten our darkness etc) are more like talking in my head to a friend.
"Please look after(...) today, you know she is going to have a tough day." "Please can I ask for a blessing on (...) today" "Lord, the church is going through such a hard time at the moment, can I ask for wisdom to know if (and what) I need to do about it."
"Lord, I know tht you are in control of (...this situation..) but I'm finding it really hard to know what to to" "Oh God, I am so bloody tired".
Not always in so many words, but that's the sentiment. I 'think in prayer and love' at the bus stop, God is never far from my mind and He is never hard to find.

In real stress I'll revert to saying some Hail Marys (in Dutch).
And no, the upset was not your fault at all and, in a way, nothing to do with you.

My prayer is often just a conversation through the day, like I'd have with dh - like DO said, going through the small stuff as well as larger 'requests'. As I see it as a relationship, to just kneel down and ask for things wouldn't be right or even healthy. I've always liked Brother Lawrence's model of prayer - The Practise of the Presence of God, where he sees prayer as an ongoing conversation - so when he is cooking, gardening etc, he'll remember people and situations before God, and say thanks for stuff, and praise God etc etc. I've always loved this model as opposed to more formal ways of praying, but there is certainly a place for this as well and for times set aside.

I do meditation too but Christian meditation, so yes emptying yourself of all the stuff around but letting God heal your mind and fill your thoughts. It can be pretty awesome, with a peace that can blow your mind :)

Novack, please stop. The OP is going through something horrible and everyone else on this thread, whether we have the same beliefs or not, has done their best to be helpful.

Many people find solace from wicca and other henotheistic religions and she may find comfort and solace there if she searches.

Novak, there are absolutely shitloads of different religions and deities for people to explore and perhaps find solace from if they are so inclined. As far as I can understand the OP of the thread is dealing with someone who wishes her to accept Christianity, specifically (and who might find her embracing of a different religion more upsetting than the rejection of the lot).

Though if I've got that bit wrong, Aquestion, then you might in fact find something other than Christianity suits you better and it might be easier for you to discuss with your friend/relative the possibility of some sort of universal afterlife that isn't specific to one god or pantheon of gods.

I've been thinking about this, and it's making me very uneasy.

aquestion did you feel there was something missing from your life before you came under this immense pressure?

I appreciate that you want to comfort your loved one. But I am uncomfortable that you are searching to a point where you are having odd experiences (which may well be god or a god but equally if not more probably may not be) when you are already under so much strain.

SGB's poem quoted earlier describes my feelings. AFAIK, there is probably no specific deity worth worshipping. I could not make myself believe, and believe me I tried. I think I made myself mentally unwell with the trying, tbh. The sense of freedom when I realised that I did not have to try (I'm Irish, you try being Atheist here!) was wonderful. It still is wonderful. I love my life, a life without god/ spirituality/ whatever is as worth living as any other. I don't think there's enough of that side on this thread.

I'm very glad that all the religious (mainly Christian?) people on this thread have found peace with their chosen brand of belief, but you don't have to choose this path. You don't have to be untrue to yourself (and I really think, from your posts, that you have a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance going on) to please someone else, no matter how desperately they want you to.

I hope this doesn't come across as attacking, I'm really trying not to be. If god is what you need/ want, then I hope you find it. But please don't torture yourself.

I agree, Crunchy, and think it's good to hear all sides.

I do believe and am, in my own way, quite devoutly Christian, but just as fervently believe that people are on the paths they're on, with the beliefs they have, for reasons of their own and, well, the Universe's. (That was quite a long sentence. )

It sounds as though this friend is happy that the OP is thinking more about her beliefs, etc, and if that's all it comes to then I think that's lovely. You must love him very much and I hope that your questioning isn't bringing you more pain instead of less.

I know people who don't "do" God but find a lot of solace from meditation, nature, etc...basically anything peaceful. :)

Crunchy - no, I definitely did not think anything was missing from my life before this happened. I was very happy with my beliefs (which I suppose for this thread would be considered athiest, though I'd never labelled myself anything in particular) and felt a great deal of conviction in what I believed to be logical and rational.

I am familiar with a fairly wide variety of religions/practises, and tbh have outright rejected all of it in the past. Right now, it is as SGB has said - really only Christianity that I am reaching for, as that is what I've essentially been asked to accept, or at least seriously consider.

So really, if the question is would I otherwise be searching for anything, for solace or otherwise, the answer is no, I am quite certain that I would not. Nonetheless, this is the situation that I am in and I am doing my absolute best to try.

And it doesn't come across as attacking at all, Crunchy. I'm not sure it qualifies as cognitive dissonance though. Intellectually, I've never had conflicting beliefs, and have lived my life according to my beliefs without significant difficulty. This is a different battle. I'm doing this for reasons that are emotional, which I can't argue with logic. That's where I get lost. I've always argued everything with what I've thought was logic and rationality. I don't know how to operate outside of that framework.

CheerfulYank - The questioning is only bringing me pain in that I feel I am failing to deliver what I wish I could give him. He is satisfied and not asking for more than my newfound openness, but I can imagine the joy and comfort he would feel if I were to have more to offer, iykwim.

And thank you to those who have shared how you pray, it seems quite varied.

I've been lurking on this thread but haven't posted as other people put things so much better than I could. You asked about prayer though. Most of the time I pray as MHD has described. I also sometimes write out prayers as letters to God. If I've a lot on my mind I find that having to organise it into sentences and paragraphs can help me to make sense of things. I don't think there is any right or wrong answer though. Different things will feel right for different people.

Right - back to lurking.