Graham, Gloria and Gossip! Religion Chat thread (part 4)

[nickelbabe]

I know we've not officially finished the last one, but I wanted to get the link in before we ran out of room!

Everyone welcome - the aim of this thread is to generally chat about church life, or just gossip in general!
You don't have to be a regular church-goer, nor do you have to know what we're going on about!
It's not about debate, it's just about chatting
:)

once saved always saved - to point, it's true, but it's important to realise that you've made a promise in return for your salvation, and it can be taken away from you just as easily if you break your side of the bargain.
there are plenty of examples of the "righteus" man falling from god's favour.

all the all-age services i've ever been to seem to be aimed at the children. and rowdy, impatient ones at that.

Once saved, always got a hole in your heart where Jesus should be. Once seen Jesus for Who He is, there is no way you can ever live again as if He doesn't exist and doesn't have a claim on you. You may be able to pretend, but in the deep of night, in the midst of misery, you will always know what you've got to do and what you are doing wrong.
Jesus will be there to welcome you during your life time, but there will come a time when it is too late to be saved - that will be the time of your death. And if you have not had a relationship with Jesus during your lifetime (and if you turn to Him briefly and then turn away) what do you expect at the end of your life? The promise of God is that He will be with you always, you cannot blame Him if you've got out of the habit of being with Him. What happens after your death if you've not been with God is not something we have any clear idea about, God being the God He is, what we do know is that God asks of each one of us to recognise that we need salvation and that accepting that salvation has as many consequences as not accepting it, for good or for ill.
Salvation means Jesus for this life and the next, for this life and for eternity. Take it or leave it, the choice is yours, but you only have one life to make the choice.

It's a hard one isn't it. I don't think any of us can know. There is a passage of scripture which talks about barely making it through the flames or something similar (will try and find) but also refers to those who have made a decision for Christ always being saved - then there is that 'do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God' passage.

I find it hard. I know people who were saved and became atheists and very anti-Christian and anti-God. I'm not sure how they fit into it all.

I think all we can say is that God is just. We have no idea how it all works really, but we know that there is ultimate wonderful justice for all. That is why I have no worry about those who have never heard, children, devout people of other religions who have never heard the gospel properly etc. Because I believe God is just and I believe all are given that choice, whenever that is, and in the end it is up to them.

Maybe that is somewhat of a cop out answer but I cannot give a theologically sound reflection on this one because there are too many variants. It cannot be argued that all who are saved are always saved, or that those who 'leave the fold' are no longer saved. So we need something to say that somehow contains everything. And that is it. That God knows. And that God is a God of justice and mercy.

Hi Nickel, yes he has been given permission to stay, although it was a VERY close call at one point!

I have to confess that my theology was deeply shaped by reading C.S.Lewis as a child. My 'obsession' book was The Last Battle. I loved the bit about the man who'd always served Tash getting through the stable door and realising that it was Aslan who he'd been loving and serving all along.

I think anything you can do in this life that helps you recognise the One True God-is-Love when you come face to face, can only be a good thing. For some people, their mental state/false impressions of 'God'/experiences in their life, will mean that they are unable to do so until fully themselves the other side of death. But any experiences they have of Love will make them realise who they're meeting.

I know some atheists who I'm sure the minute they come face to face with God will realise they were worshipping all along. Just by another name.

Is it this, MHD?

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person?s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved?even though only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor. 3, 10-15)

Interestingly, this passage was one of those that was interpreted in the Middle Ages (C10th/11th) as pointing towards the existence of Purgatory (the idea of being saved, but 'as one who has been through the flames', kind of makes sense from that perspective). I don't know how this is interpreted by modern scholars, though. (That's the disadvantage of being a medievalist... my knowledge stops somewhere towards the first half of the C14th!)

Yes TUO that's what I was thinking of.

I'm a big Last Battle fan too marmite and always remembered that part about the person serving Tash as well - it just feels right somehow, I know what you mean :)

The Bible speaks often of people losing their faith. Matthew 13:18-23, the parable of the sewer of seeds: those without roots quickly fall away. Mark 13:13, stand firm to the end for salvation. 1 Corinthians 3:16, you are the Temple of God and if you defile yourself God will destroy you. 2 Peter 1:10, make your calling and election sure. 1 John 2:24, if you continue to believe you'll continue to be saved. James 1:13-14, God never tempts you away and if you are tempted and drawn away it is your own lust. Somewhere in Revelations it says if you are lukewarm you will be 'spat out'

On strictly practical terms, if you actually believe in Jesus... what's the point afterwards? Why not just start taking drugs and sleeping arround? You're already saved from that point onward. I know several atheists who fell away from such beliefs. Although they spend their lives supporting a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, stem cell research, and arguing that the Bible is simply fiction would they still go to heaven?

IMO To accept this doctrine is to open one up to accept a life of sinning and as a result to begin a life of sinning without respect to the commandments of the Lord. Jude 4 refers to those who turn the grace of God into a license for sin. To accept that license is to fall from grace. Grace is the way a christian is saved. Jesus warned of many false teacher who would come in the last days before His coming teaching things that even deny the Lord who redeemed them. That is what I believe this teaching leads to.

My conclusion is People who are saved can sin. If they willfully sin by making a continual habit out of it, they will loose their salvation

We need to think of a title for the new thread! It needs to be started in 15 posts

I think I normally start the thread, so anyone else who wants to do the honours, please feel free!
(but don't forget to post the link on here) :)

Don't let us discourage you from doing it this time Nickel Just because you have a baby....

I didn't mean I see it as my job, I meant that it always seems to be that starts! :)

here

This thread is just too long

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/1387289-Hallelujah-He-is-Here-Chataway?msgid=29584003#29584003 New shiny thread

Think something went wrong with your link Do

ugh and with mine another try

Cool, I'll join now :)