Graham, Gloria and Gossip! Religion Chat thread (part 4)

[nickelbabe]

I know we've not officially finished the last one, but I wanted to get the link in before we ran out of room!

Everyone welcome - the aim of this thread is to generally chat about church life, or just gossip in general!
You don't have to be a regular church-goer, nor do you have to know what we're going on about!
It's not about debate, it's just about chatting
:)

here's an excerpt

lovely.

See, I don't know whether our church is particularly welcoming to children. when knobhead vicar came, he rather made ours an old fogies' church and he concentrated on making St Mary's a family church.
which is daft really.
But our younger congregation died down, and it was really up to us to get it back up again.
We don't have a sunday school, because we don't have enough kids, but now we're got 2 in the Junior Choir, and there is a family that comes most weeks and sits quietly playing with the Bags in their pews.
and now we've got DD - I suppose it's a good way of showing newbies that we do welcome children, but that it's not a happyclappy, kids-running-about-everywhere church.
I think there's a time and a place for kids-running-about-everywhere, and the church service is only just over an hour, it's not that hard, is it?
It would be nice to have a sunday school, but we'll see what happens.
Kids can go into the Tower room, because there's a box of stuff to play with in there. (heating would be nice - we do have heaters for the Choir, but they're calor gas ones, so not suitable for putting on when children are on their own!)

marmite - you would be okay in our church, then - the Tower Room has a speaker in it, so you can hear and join in the service, and see what's going on, cos the doors are glass, as well as the children being allowed to play.

I'm quite happy with sunday-school-free churches. The one I took the children to when we lived in Cambridge had a congregation of arond 12. It was lovely. I'm not saying my kids run around everywhere; I like having them in church, but allowing them to access the service more easily. There's a lot you can do with a whisper. I'd rather they were doing faith development stuff, and getting used to the rhythms of the service, than sitting and being quiet, but detached from what is going on. I've seen too many 'good' children sitting in church plugged into a DS.

i agree with that.

I agree too.

One of our rules has always been 'no DS in church'. They are allowed books before the service but not during (now, they are 11 and 8, but when they were little they were of course allowed to look at books, play etc) but we've always encouraged to join in.

I saw some good childrens versions of the communion service somewhere with pictures and explanations so they could read along - they were really good.

Saying that I would much rather a church be open to little children running around, to show welcome to all - not all people coming in get the whole keep the children quiet and listening thing - and it very much depends on the culture as well. Jesus showed welcome to little children and we should strive to as much as we can - but it will differ in different contexts.

plus DS was always a runner arounder

curate's children always worst behaved

I reckon they're worst behaved because it's just like an extension of their living room. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking with it!

hi marmite did you live in the family flats at Westcott? what is it like?
I'm thinking about training at Westcott... (that is if I ever get through the process ) My MIL is currently training there!

Hm, what to say about Westcott?
We lived in Flat 2 (well, for Alex's second year. The first year there were no spaces, so rather than live properly off site, we lived in a 'corridor' over the road at Wesley- that's the Methodist college. Not ideal! The Methodists were lovely but it was pretty grim to live in.) Flat 2 was a bit of a squash, especially when our fourth baby was born. Although that was fun too- we had him at home, and it was a bit of a Westcott party :)

We loved it and hated it in equal measure. Family friendly it's not- Cuddesdon is much better for family life. Westcott has the problem, especially if you're doing one of the Cambridge degrees, that you're torn in several directions at once. Cambridge University wants all of you; Westcott house and formation want all of you; trying to keep some semblance of family life is a struggle.

That said, it's amazing to be part of a community and to bring your children up as part of it. Westcott is at best a creative and exciting place to thrash out what your vocation means. And it's a bonus to live in the centre of Cambridge. Feel free to ask any more questions that you think of!

MIL indeed said it would be a bit of a squash and we only have one DD1 at the moment... I would like a few more children before I start training cause during training and curacy would probably not be ideal.

Depends what course you do. If you're a brainbox who they put on the tripos (and you're under 30 so going to do three years), you have two years of academic insanity, followed by a year of milling around being pastoral. If you were able to pop out a baby shortly after your tripos finals, that wouldn't be bad timing. I know people who did that.

And we reckoned we'd rather be squashed and feel part of the community by living on site, rather than live outside and never see each other.

There's a school nearby (round the corner) but Westcott children seemed to mostly go to St Luke's. Maybe because that's where Martin Seeley's went? My oldest, Miriam, did her reception and year one there- sniff- happy days.

I was at a church in NE London on Sunday - St John's, Stratford :). Commissioning of a priest I'd met who was an asylum seeker :).

And if anyone comes to Cambridge, I am only 15 miles away (of course you might see that as a reason to stay clear :o)

I'll be 30 by the time I start... :) just looked up Cuddesdon... looks nice as well...

I do like the community life aspect very much...

Mary when we went to PIL for Christmas, I said to DH, look that's where Mary from MN lives

Clockface is at Cuddesdon. She's not on MN much, but she is always happy to help out and give advice :)

LOL Bluetinkerbell :o

mhd - thought for a moment that your rule was "No darling sons allowed in church"

Have to say there are times when I've thought that would be a great rule...

aha thanks for that Mary

yeah it was DH had a bit of a face when I said it

true, I do think it shows welcoming to all if children are allowed to run around (or if newbies see children running around).
It just so happens we haven't got any at the moment

we often have them when we have baptisms, and all the old dears in the church smile and say how lovely it is to have children in the church.

Mary - that's positive.
I take it "was" means that he's been given leave to remain?

Hehe at no darling sons. Indeed!!

Nottingham is a lovely family community too - more open evangelical tradition but open to all as well I think.
Blue you must keep me updates as to how it's all going :)

lost
I am so glad that we are somewhere where DD is getting Bible teaching, and learning to pray, through Sunday school. They do get some at school (church school) but otherwise it would be down to me - not that I don't read and explain the Bible to her, and she is starting to pray out loud with me too. I am starting to see the fruits of it too in some statements of her own developing faith which is just wonderful.
I wasn't brought up in a Christian home though so I feel like I am often making it up as I go along what is right to be teaching and modelling for her.

My DSs have been pretty lively in church. DS2 still is. I wouldn't choose to go to a church without a Sunday School as I find it can be stressful trying to keep them still and quiet for over an hour, although DS1 is a lot better now than he used to be. I just end up feeling that I've got nothing out of the service because I've been concentrating on the kids and that they've got nothing from it either because they've been restless and fidgety. I've also found myself avoiding all age services because the thought of trying to keep them both under control for a full service is too much. Kinda defeats the purpose of the all age services doesn't it!

Hi,

I'm going to jumpo in the deep end here. We have had a rather heated discussion at home group tonight and I wanted to ask your opinions on 'once saved always saved'

discuss please.....

I don't like all-age services, either. I'm not sure I know of anyone who does. I think you need to be incredibly talented to appeal to all ages and give them all something to think about - and even then, the amount of work that would need to go into the preparation would make it unviable as a monthly project.

Good question, Attilla. Haven't a clue. :o It's one of those things I just don't understand. I thought it was true, but now know of people who have drifted away from their faith and seem to have nothing left - do they get into heaven by the skin of their teeth?! Look forward to hearing what people say on this...

Another one relieved to admit that my heart sinks a little on "family service" Sunday and I don't even have one that runs around. Though, we do have a very talented puppeteer/ ventriloquist, now if he'd do every family service (which just isn't possible for his own family reasons) then I might change my opinion as DD along with every other child between 3 and 10 is transfixed!

Once saved always saved... hmm... I am sure these sorts of questions should be answered by better Bible scholars than me. My experience though was that during my 'wilderness years' (love that phrase) was that I knew God was there, I still knew if pushed that Jesus died on the cross for my salvation, but I was expending huge amounts of energy trying to hide from God, to turn my back on Him, and do what I wanted anyway, to believe that God had never made a difference to me, and it was exhausting. So I believe I knew I was saved, but I was spiritually miserable. I think that's approximately what passages like Luke 15v11 onwards and Matthew 21v18 onwards are saying but am very willing to stand corrected.

Interesting discussions!!!

Children in Church - I'm not sure there is an ideal to suit everyone but absolutely agree with the sentiment of welcoming to all. We are quite lucky that in our parish (of 3 churches) we have 7 Sunday services which are welcome to all, although the 3 Sunday morning services held at various times are seen as more "family services" and have a children's liturgy for 4-8yr olds in 3 age groups. The children process out with their liturgy book whilst we sing the Gloria and they process back in with pin boards filled with their artwork they e done around the gospel theme just after the offertory. The pin boards are then stood by the altar for the remainder of the service and the children collect what they've done afterwards.
The children's liturgy does only operate during term time which I think works well as it gives the catechists a break and also gets the children used to a full service. At the 10.30 service that I usually go to we do get about 25-30 children going out to children's liturgy so it's lovely seeing them process out and back in.

DS is still too young for a couple of years to go to children's liturgy though. We do have a day chapel that sounds like Nickel's tower room with speakers and a glass "wall" being the only separation from the main church. I like to keep DS in with me though so that he starts to get more of a feel for church. Because I'm part of the music group, he gets a good view of what is happening which always helps! Whether I'll continue being able to stay in when I've got DC2 as well, I don't know!!

Marmite , I do think your children's corner sounds great!

Wow! Sorry that was probably far too much detail/blurb!!!

Now for the once saved always saved debate ... First off, I think it's natural to wonder about this but not sure if it is important because it is not up to us to judge who will and won't be saved. It is up to us to be responsible for our own relationship with God and to try to ensure nothing gets in the way of that.
However, it is natural to wonder....
Personally - and I know not everyone will share my view! - I believe God will want to welcome everyone into His Kingdom but it will be our sinful nature that may prevent this. I believe that even after we die if we repent and have love/desire to be with him, he will welcome us as a loving Father - just look at the Prodigal Son.
This doesn't mean we can do what we want in our earthly lives with a last minute get out clause. It is important for us to strive evermore to be more like the example Jesus set because it pleases God who we love, and because I do believe that although often hard and strewn with earthly difficulties, we will be able to have not just a heavenly but an earthly life that is more "life to the full".

I hope some of the above makes sense!
Do I get the prize for the longest ever post from a phone?!

Morning mousie - just noticed we x-posted (I take ages typing on my phone!) How are you doing?