Do not introduce Digital ID cards

[ANTIHEROTAYLORSWIFT]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194

🙄🙄🙄

Seen elsewhere and re-posted, but it does just about sum up the level of thinking this government’s capable of…

Starmer: You all NEED a digital ID to work in the UK
Citizen: Why? I’ve got a passport, NI number and/or a driver's license
Starmer: Your passport, NI number and/or driver's license just aren’t secure enough anymore for your ID.

Citizen: OK, how do I get a digital ID?

Starmer: You’ll just need to show us your passport, NI number and/or driver's license.

Citizen: Wait? What?

Why do weak leaders get more authoritarian under pressure? You see it at work with poor managers, you see it in schools with teachers that lose control of the class and you see it with the police when they are on dodgy ground. They all think their role alone gives them authority, but leadership requires requires much more than that. A vison for a start. Who wants a leader that doesn’t know where they are going?

I live abroad and have ID and have no issue with it whatsoever. I think it can reduce many issues if you have to prove where you live, if you have a right to healthcare, if you can work legally etc and mine can be used for travel within Schengen, downloading of prescriptions and warranties for purchases, access to financial and health records, tax, pensions etc etc. The data is not held on the card - it just allows you to access the different systems in an easy way. I see no reason why any law abiding citizen should object - EXCEPT - data security and who is managing this is important and I can see why people might have concerns there. Especially in the UK. Lots of big issues occur because there is no overarching record of people in UK - I think visa overstayers and the black economy and healthcare tourism is a much bigger issue than the "boats"

It also won’t be addressed by a digital ID scheme.

@MissAmbrosia interesting to hear the experiences of others

Is it compulsory where you are? Can you work without it? Can you do anything without it?

Yes - compulsory and you have to carry it with you - no you can't do much without it. Certainly not work, or have a bank account or access healthcare. I guess the black economy still exists somewhere, but it's made much harder - and the authorities do spot checks on local businesses to see if they are employing e.g children, illegal workers etc. and take actions. Police check where you live when you move house. I live in Belgium, by the way, not North Korea. It is not all oppressive or something I even think about much. I don't feel controlled by the state.

2 million signatures now

@MissAmbrosia thank you that's
Interesting

I don't know what Belgium was like in lockdown, but that's a big problem for me. Also, I don't know if Belgium puts people in prison for saying offensive things.

Can you explain what you actually mean by this please rather than an obscure sound bite? We’re probably all already “digital slaves” to our phones etc. All this will do is take a step to make illegal working harder- I don’t think it will stop illegal working tbh without some sort of massive enforcement action which won’t happen (too expensive) as if people don’t do RTW checks now not sure why this will change it and if people employ cash in hand and break the law now again they won’t change, but I genuinely don’t understand what you are saying.

If it was to fight immigration they would do it with other means, we already have systems that prevent illegal employment, and they work around it, as they will with this new citizen control system.

Phones/PC,s etc are a choice. Whether have one, to chose who you buy it from and what you use it for.
If we have digital ID cards then that’s it. We will all be compulsorily on whichever computer system the government buys into. Without it we would be classed as breaking the law and we won’t exist as British Citizens. Same as slaves had no choice - they had to belong to their owner.

@Keepingthingsinteresting it's not a phrase I would use, but I understand it, or I think I do. Until the poster comes back to clarify what they meant.

The concern is basically that it will turn into social credit and they will be able to track everything that you've done on it. So for example, if you didn't have the Covid vaccine, you might then be banned from entering certain places. If you're okay with that, and I realise a lot of people are, then you've got nothing to worry about.

With the current State of things, there's also concerns that your political views may link into the digital identity - so banking suspended because of hurty words for example or unacceptable views. Be interesting to see how the blasphemy law works out.

I can't see how it's going to help with illegal working. People who employ staff without doing the proper legal checks will still do it.

And the government don't give two hoots about illegal working. That isn't why they want this.

I'm not sure if it's been confirmed about the Euan Blair and Multiverse connection yet.

Thanks for responding. Feels awfully conspiracy theory ish doesn’t it? People can’t have their cake and eat it, if they want, for example, immigration control, ensuring illegal immigrants can’t use the nhs etc then there has to be a way of validating eligibility.

Obviously systems need to be robust, and we don’t have the best record in this country for that so I absolutely wouldn’t want to see tendering to the lowest bidder and there needs to be robust oversight but that can be achieved.

I really think people need to stop expecting perfection and everything their own way, if you want the benefits of a society you have to be part of it, and responsible to it.

I also find this parallel to slavery offensive and suspect if you were able to ask a genuine slave they wouldn’t see the parallel.

“All this will do is take a step to make illegal working harder- I don’t think it will stop illegal working tbh without some sort of massive enforcement action which won’t happen (too expensive) as if people don’t do RTW checks now not sure why this will change it and if people employ cash in hand and break the law now again they won’t change”

You have answered your own question there.
Illegal working already exists despite employers having to ask for ID/ passports/ NI numbers!

Those who recruit illegal workers simply turn a blind eye. It’s not going to change anything, those who recruit people who have the right to live and work in the UK will still continue to ask for ID….those who recruit illegal workers will STILL turn a blind eye. Nothing will change. Not sure what’s so hard to grasp.

Also, maybe you should research the many reasons people have stated… just on this very thread why they’re saying it’s digital slavery! It isn’t going to stop illegal migrants coming over. It isn’t going to stop illegal workers. The government are manipulating people because they want control. We already have NI numbers/ driving licenses/ passports. We don’t need digital IDs now do we. And the government are lying to and manipulating us about the reasons why we need it (as I’ve just explained).

You’ve entirely dodged my question. I agree that it won’t necessarily solve the illegal immigration working/working problem, but hyperbole about slavery doesn’t help. You’ve not actually given any explanation or justification for the statement or why they would be a problem. In my previous post I explained why they could be useful which would help move us towards a system where access for non entitled persons is limited but you don’t appear to have recognised those.

i don’t particularly care either way but i think people are overreacting with little critical thinking, this probably won’t change much and surely if helps towards the problems people seem to care about ( which I also don’t believe are as impactful as certain racists are saying) then that has to be a good thing, right? As I say people cannot have their cake and eat it, if you need to be able to identify people who shouldn’t be here then you need to be able to identify people….

No you don’t need to use a digital ID system to control
access to services and benefits for citizens. You just need to know who is entering and give freedoms to the people here.

It wasn’t my statement to give as you quoted another poster and asked them, I just responded.

Again… First of all, if it isn’t going to stop illegal migrants and it isn’t going to stop illegal workers then we know the government are lying to us and manipulating us.

And again, if it isn’t going to stop illegal migration and it isn’t going to stop illegal workers then what’s the point of having it in the first place? The government KNOW it isn’t going to stop them so why are they insisting it will? Oh yeah they’re trying to use it as a form of control, so that they have all our data in one place, so they know what we are doing at any given time. And also there’s a massive threat of cyber attacks.

So what’s your reason FOR wanting the digital ID then if you know it isn’t going to do what the government says it will? And we already have to show our ID/ national insurance numbers to employers before we can work anyway.

@Keepingthingsinteresting I wouldn't use that word either. Digital dictatorship might be more appropriate?

You mention illegal immigrants and the NHS. I've never heard this raised as a concern. Asylum seekers etc They're legally entitled to use the NHS. I'm not sure who you meant by illegal immigrants.

One of the biggest questions is actually - what's it for? Who benefits?

people are very concerned about things like CDBC - I filled in the consultation by the bank of England - and the situation that we've already seen with the Canadian truckers. That was thought to be very conspiracy theory until it actually happened.

That's before you get into the possibility of linking up other records and finding you've been locked out of your banking for an unpopular view - also something that has actually happened to people with banks refusing to have their custom. This would be much easier to do with digital ID. Graham Linehan would have returned from his arrest by five armed officers to find himself unable to do any banking.

If they had simply said "we are offering everybody a free identity card, not compulsory, to help you vote in elections and you're able to link it to other government services" and stuff like that, with no digital element - that would've been one thing.

of course I realise that people some people don't need a driving license or a passport and can't pay for it. and this will make their lives easier. But but then it would've been introduced as something to help people. I would say this is very much being promoted as a threat "do this or else".

IIRC when Blair first suggested it, we were not in the state of discontent or fear that we are now. And it wasn't popular then. They've obviously waited for practically a whole generation to try again. But many people are aware of what the problems are.

And many of us wouldn't dream of having facial recognition on our phones, have always had the privacy feature set to the max etc.

Any of those who support it noticed who the firm chosen for it is ?

And who is the founder of said firm ?

I mean - what could go wrong ?

I've mentioned it, but as I said, I didn't know if it had been confirmed

I’ve seen somewhere that it’s Tony Blair’s son. Is this correct?

I don’t like the tone in which you are speaking to me. You chose to respond so you don’t then get to say the question wasn’t addressed to you.

i didn’t say i wanted the proposed new system, i was trying to understand why some people are so wound up, but all I’ve read is conspiracy theory and bad attitude, so I can only presume you are a loon, which incidentally makes it harder to take your position seriously .

How is calling someone a ‘loon’ a nice tone anyway. @Flyingintotheunknownhas a point on this.

I spoke to you in that tone because I’d already explained my reasons and you again asked me for my reasons and claimed I’d ‘dodged a question’ so I repeated myself twice.

And calling me a loon says a lot about you, resorting to name calling because you don’t like an opinion different to yours and are trying to dismiss people’s concerns! Sounds very familiar doesn’t it, especially on threads like this 🤣 Maybe you should speak for yourself! It’s throwing names about for no reason like this that make you contradict yourself about what you have just said about me “I don’t like your tone”. 🤣

I think it's a mint idea me. All the frothing has been highly entertaining.