To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead18]

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

It's to suggest that your understanding of boundaries is simplistic and one-sided.
Your second "fact" is not "stand alone", it is predicated on the assumption that those boundaries are legitimate and proportionate, which is based on the 98% and similar statistics.

A much simpler idea would be to bring the female estate in line with the male.
The amount of "trans" prisoners would drop through the floor.

So just to be clear werefox is also in favour of self identified fully intact transwomen in female prisons then?

Signed and shared.

It's to suggest that your understanding of boundaries is simplistic and one-sided

You can play with the equality act wording all you like. But your understanding of boundaries seems to be that they can be decided by someone other than the woman to whom they apply. And on a basis other than her own consent.

That's a worrying suggestion.

64% of female prisoners have suffered from past of sexual trauma. Nearly half of all transwomen in prison have been convicted of sex offences.

You do the math.

If you can't see that allowing the second cohort access to the first is wrong, then you're part of the problem.

I doubt you will be signing this petition. But nitpicking and pussyfooting around facts to justify it isn't a good look.

A much simpler idea would be to bring the female estate in line with the male.
The amount of "trans" prisoners would drop through the floor.

Why is this necessary? There is a vast sex difference between crimes - most women are imprisoned for prostitution and petty theft and are not a risk to the public. Most men are in prison for violent and sexually motivated crimes, they most certainly are a risk to the public.

When I worked in a b-cat local remand jail I couldn't even walk on the landings on my own. I now work in a female prison and it is safe for me to unlock their cell door, take them to my clinic, treat them, and take them back to their cell and lock them back in. Female prisoners do not pose a threat to me, male prisoners do, and this is why male prisoners should not be allowed in the female estate with these vulnerable women! Most of them are barely 6 stone wet through, compared to 12 stone men.

I don't give a shit about the menz and their feelz. A tomato might feel like a lettuce but it's still a tomato. A man might feel like a woman but he will always be a man, regardless of whether he presents as a woman or mutualises his body.

Nearly half of all transwomen in prison have been convicted of sex offences.

You do the math.

Oh, I can do the maths.

There are 60 trans inmates in prison for sex offences. Slightly less than half.

60 in a prison population of 84,500.

60 in a national population of 55,000,000.

What exactly were you trying to say with that stat? Don't you think those 60 are likely to be being held in the men's estate already?

60 in 55,000,000.

Women in prison are far, FAR more likely to be abused by male prison guards than to even encounter a trans inmate.

Oh, and those male prison guards see them naked in the showers as well.

I don't agree with male guards either Rat.

But this argument that keeps cropping up, that says women are already subjected to sexual assault/harassment, so here let them have some more, is twisted.

There are 60 trans inmates in prison for sex offences. Slightly less than half.

I dare say there's a few more than that! Massive underestimate in numbers there because the statistics do not recognise transgender prisoners with a GRC.

Oh, and those male prison guards see them naked in the showers as well.

No they don't, stop peddling myths.

There are far more men in prison than women. There are more men in prison for sex offences than women in prison at all.

There are approximately 14,000 men in prison for sex offences, as opposed to 120 women.

Being a transwoman is unverifiable. Anyone of those, indeed all of those men can identify as a woman.

The prison service themselves are saying men are identifying as women for any number of reasons, including access to victims.

I honestly see don't know how anyone could ever think that incarcerating criminal men in with vulnerable women is acceptable.

Because you are not comparing apples with apples. Male prisoners and female prisoners are not the same.

But you do you.

Massive underestimate in numbers there because the statistics do not recognise transgender prisoners with a GRC.

MASSIVE UNDERESTIMATE when the total number of GRCs granted in the full history of time IS less than 4000?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

MASSIVE UNDERESTIMATE when the total number of GRCs granted in the full history of time IS less than 4000?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

It's funny how there's a disproportionate representation of transwomen with GRCs I'm female estates, how do you explain that?

Signed

Here are some interesting statistics for you...

There were 4910 GRCs issued until August 2018.

The 125 transgender prisoners countered in the statistics are prisoners that have had a case conference, those on short sentences or have a GRC are not included in those statistics.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

Shared petition with prison officers, hopefully we'll get it up 10k.

Just popping back with a reminder of the petition link

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Also popping in this article from yesterday Canadian nonce is being housed in the female estate where presumably children live.

www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/10/30/transgender-woman-gets-18-month-sentence-for-sexually-assaulting-daughter.html

For all I know this situation could be happening right now in the UK. When women are responsible for 2% of sex offender population, I imagine the risk of child assault in prison is so tiny that it is feasible to house toddlers in jail. As the numbers of sex offending males admitted to the female estate increase, will women lose the opportunity to keep their babies in prison?

Please sign the petition.

Thanks fruitcider for your thoughts on this thread.

If anyone reading this is skimming through the replies - fruitcider has worked in the male & female estate.

Fruitcider says housing males in the female estate is wrong.

It's a pithy summary but we are all time poor.

Signed. Bump.

You can play with the equality act wording all you like. But your understanding of boundaries seems to be that they can be decided by someone other than the woman to whom they apply. And on a basis other than her own consent.

That's a worrying suggestion.

This.

There were 4910 GRCs issued until August 2018.

Did you knock off a thousand, Rat?

We aren't just talking about those with a GRC though are we? A GRC isn't a prerequisite to being transferred to the female prison. Let's include all self id and cross dressers then see if it's still 60 odd?

No, in fact we're talking specifically about those who consider themselves transgender but don't have a GRC, as FruitCider and the bbc link explained.

I don’t understand the assertion/implication that a certain number or a “small” number of sexual assaults in prison of women by tw is ok, as long as all tw get to go to the prison that they would like to be in. What kind of person thinks this is ok??

You can play with the equality act wording all you like. But your understanding of boundaries seems to be that they can be decided by someone other than the woman to whom they apply. And on a basis other than her own consent.

Sometimes they can, yes, because everyone has "boundaries", often they overlap with others' like an offended Venn diagram, and nobody has absolute top trumps. What matters is whether the boundaries are reasonable.

If I want to exclude, say, all blue-eyed people from my vicinity, and the government steps in to stop me, they are indeed "disrespecting my boundaries", and rightly so, because my boundaries are unfairly discriminatory. Question is, are yours?

And @BiologyMatters no, I think it should be decided case by case and not by idiots, just as if a prisoner says they're too ill for prison work.