Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Petitions and activism

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

608 replies

kendoddsdadsdogsdead18 · 29/10/2018 15:28

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

OP posts:
RatUnholyRolyPoly · 30/10/2018 20:18

You are mind-bogglingly ignorant on what constitutes sexual abuse, and what constitutes a sex abuser. Literally, I can't even...

Whatsmymethod · 30/10/2018 20:18

Signed

Ereshkigal · 30/10/2018 20:21

Talkinginthedark

Ereshkigal · 30/10/2018 20:22

You are mind-bogglingly ignorant on what constitutes sexual abuse, and what constitutes a sex abuser. Literally, I can't even...

Go on Rat, enlighten us all.

TalkingintheDark · 30/10/2018 20:30

Thanks Ereshkigal. It’s sickening, isn’t it?

Elletorro · 30/10/2018 20:31

Definition of voyeurism is below

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/67

I’d say showering in prison is a private act and that the women have no option so they cannot have consented to being observed.

This is state sanctioned sexual abuse. It has to stop. If this is how the government treats women at their most vulnerable then all women are at risk.

We protect our most vulnerable citizens; we don’t deny them human rights. I’ve been keeping off Mumsnet due to anxiety and panic attacks about this particular issue but I cannot keep quiet about this.

Floeythekangaroo · 30/10/2018 20:33

signed and shared
no one born male should be in a women's prison

Ereshkigal · 30/10/2018 20:37

Thanks Ereshkigal. It’s sickening, isn’t it?

Very.

Datun · 30/10/2018 20:42

This is state sanctioned sexual abuse. It has to stop. If this is how the government treats women at their most vulnerable then all women are at risk.

This ^^^.

This.

Ereshkigal · 30/10/2018 20:50

Go on Rat, enlighten us all.

Still want to hear, Rat. Clearly quite a heartfelt view you have there.

You're not the only one to have one.

Original poster
kendoddsdadsdogsdead18 · 30/10/2018 21:33

Article in Canada today. It's involves incest/sex abuse, so please don't read on if likely to trigger.

www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/10/30/transgender-woman-gets-18-month-sentence-for-sexually-assaulting-daughter.

Father sexually molests his daughter age 3. Between assault and court proceedings a sex change occurs (god knows what that means in terms of material reality). Father is now transwoman and is being housed on the female estate. How can it be right to house a paedophile with females and children?

In Canada self id is law. If it happens here then we will see more of this. We need in the very least the Irish model of housing trans women in the male estate.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

OP posts:
WereFox · 30/10/2018 22:07

@Datun Can a woman commit voyeurism or exhibitionism against another woman, then, if you're defining it by exposure to the opposite sex rather than by intent?

Starlive23 · 30/10/2018 22:10

Done 👍

Datun · 30/10/2018 22:12

WereFox

Yes, i'm sure they can. But it's rare. This is the whole point. Sexual and violent crime is a highly sex specific crime.

98% of the time it's committed by men.

Datun · 30/10/2018 22:13

And I'm not defining it by mere exposure.
But if a man is willing enough to ignore the boundaries of women by insisting he goes to their prison, then he's already demonstrated that women's consent means nothing.

Sunisshining3228 · 30/10/2018 22:21

Signed

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2018 22:25

4024

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 30/10/2018 22:43

I think in England the women have to shower with the trans identified males as well and aren't given a choice. It's a sexual predators dream isn't it to be showering with naked women.

WereFox · 30/10/2018 22:55

And I'm not defining it by mere exposure.

Well, you did.

Definition of voyeurism is below

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/67

Exactly,

    • for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification, * *

98% of the time it's committed by men.

But if a man is willing enough to ignore the boundaries of women by insisting he goes to their prison, then he's already demonstrated that women's consent means nothing.

That looks like circular logic to me.

Datun · 30/10/2018 23:25

WereFox

And I'm not defining it by mere exposure.

Well, you did.

Where did I?

You asked me if women could be voyeurs. I said yes, but 98% of the time it's men who commit sexual crime.

I don't understand what you mean by circular logic, either. Men who demand access to women's spaces are absolutely demonstrating their lack of respect for women's boundaries.

TalkingintheDark · 30/10/2018 23:43

But if a man is willing enough to ignore the boundaries of women by insisting he goes to their prison, then he's already demonstrated that women's consent means nothing.

Nothing circular about this at all.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2018 23:44

I don't understand what you mean by circular logic, either

Me neither. I didn't see any circularity in that. 

Redkeyboard · 31/10/2018 00:05

Signed.

WereFox · 31/10/2018 00:18

If 98% of sex offences are committed by men and therefore any male-born person insisting on women's prison, has "already demonstrated that women's consent means nothing" that's a circular reinforcement of males as guilty, if not guilty until proven innocent.

And also tempts to a corresponding bias towards women as innocent. 98% is not a measure of incidence. I don't know what the incidence of abuse in lesbian environments is, but they're not always feminist utopias, you know, and neither are the social structures found in all-female prison populations. So to me the 98% figure seems like a tool to bludgeon out the subtler but still very relevant realities of shitty human behaviour.

Datun · 31/10/2018 00:28

If 98% of sex offences are committed by men and therefore any male-born person insisting on women's prison, has "already demonstrated that women's consent means nothing" that's a circular reinforcement of males as guilty, if not guilty until proven innocent.

I didn't say 'if' and 'therefore'.

98% of sexual crime is committed by men. That's a stand alone fact.

Men who demand access to women's spaces are demonstrating a lack of respect for boundaries. That's another stand alone fact.

I've no idea why you've brought lesbians into the equation.

Except possibly to suggest that lesbian assault on women somehow makes incarcerating men in female prisons more acceptable.