Petitions and activism
To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons
kendoddsdadsdogsdead18 · 29/10/2018 15:28
You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.
However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.
In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.
If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
BeefTomato · 29/10/2018 15:39
Thank you for posting this, I have signed and shared. It's awful to think that violent male sex offenders are being housed with the most vulnerable of women. And it can't be a surprise to anybody when they then take advantage of their position.
The need for validation of these men can't be more important than the physical safety of all of these vulnerable women.
Oldstyle · 29/10/2018 15:49
I saw this article and was appalled. Worrying that it is still the policy in the UK - housing male bodied (and often violent) prisoners in female prisons obviously makes the women less safe. And the fact that they are expected to share showers is shocking.
I've signed and shared. Thanks OP.
BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2018 15:59
I'd already signed, but your OP is really good to make more people aware of this ongoing infringement of women's human rights.
Women sentenced to jail go there partly as punishment, but it is unacceptable for this punishment to include being continually humiliated and put in fear of rape or assault by men.
There is a duty of care to protect inmates.
Transwomen are men, not women and they should not be put among women prisoners.
Awwlookatmybabyspider · 29/10/2018 16:02
Oh and this beast wants to be women so much I'd gleefully cut its cock off with a rusty blunt knife and no anaesthetic.
MrsStrowman · 29/10/2018 16:05
I work in the justice sector and this is a genuine and growing problem. Prisons are not happy but are bound to accept them. It causes staffing issues in order to manage the risk posed by sexually and violently dangerous men in an all female environment. Prison is punishment but no one should have to live with that kind of fear
MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 29/10/2018 16:05
No ejaculators in the prisons of menstruators!
ARosebyAnyOtherNameChange · 29/10/2018 16:08
No, he raped outside prison and sexually assaulted women inside prison, unless I’m reading the wrong reports.
(I’d prefer to be accurate even about shitty people’s crimes.)
Sarahjconnor · 29/10/2018 16:09
This reply has been deleted
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Sarahjconnor · 29/10/2018 16:11
This reply has been deleted
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
UpstartCrow · 29/10/2018 16:16
Can I just clarify a couple of points;
- The petition does not mention any individual or offence. It states;
''Review rules that allow male prisoners who identify as female in women's prisons
Fair Play For Women is calling for MPs to ensure the relevant prison rules are urgently reviewed, in full consultation with women's organisations. Prison guidance PSI-17/2016 allows male prisoners who identity as female to be moved to a female prison at the discretion of a Transgender Case Board.
No women's organisations were consulted when the prison rules were updated in 2016. The effect on female prisoners has not been adequately assessed. Current rules are not fit for purpose and must be urgently reviewed.''
- White repeatedly raped a woman while on a women only psychiatric ward.
- White went on to commit 4 sexual assaults over the space of some 4 months while in prison.
OrchidInTheSun · 29/10/2018 16:18
Thank you for reminding me about this. I've signed and will share.
We should also remember that in the initial consultation, the prison governors' association (I think?) said that predatory men would identify as women specifically in order to access vulnerable women.
White is not the only prisoner who has been transferred back to the male estate either. Jessica Winfield (who as Martin Ponting raped two girls) had to be segregated. Some sources allege that is because of sexual advances although the prison has declined to comment.
kendoddsdadsdogsdead18 · 29/10/2018 16:32
Sorry didn't mean to imply the petition was just about Karen White but putting a full stop on anything like this happening again.
I've read a few testimonials from women who have had to shower in front of males and their gaze. Just thinking about it brings up a tight ball of fury. It's so blatantly wrong and unfair.
Lefthanddown · 29/10/2018 16:34
Signed and shared.
I do not think males should be placed in a women's prison. Nor do I think any transmen should be placed into a male facility.
If, and it is a big if, males identifying as female are not safe in male prisons, then the government need to consider trans wings within the male estate.
Women in prison should not have to face sexual harassment/assault or intimidation by males being placed in with them.
RatUnholyRolyPoly · 29/10/2018 16:46
This petition is vaguely worded, calling for a "review"... be very careful when you sign please, the group who are calling for this review are very publicly known to not want only a "review", but to actively want any transgender prisoner with XY chromosomes to be housed in the male estate.
Please THINK about what that means for trans women.
I only started looking into this myself a week or so ago, and last week posted the following links and text on another thread...
The following are two links about a trans woman kept in a male prison - sort of the flip side to the infamous Karen White. Is this what you want?? Is this the situation you want? No-one wants another Karen White, but no-one wants this either. The second link points out that just months after this woman was moved to a women's jail, two trans inmates DIED whilst being held in male jails. DIED for Christ's sake!!
The petition itself notes that, Prison guidance PSI-17/2016 allows male prisoners who identity as female to be moved to a female prison at the discretion of a Transgender Case Board. There is a CASE BOARD in place to make these decisions, and they have the power to house trans women (or ANY woman!) who poses a threat in the male estate. YES, they should make better decisions, and Karen White should never have happened. Appeal to the authorities to do better, by all means, and I will sign that too....
But please, don't be fooled into signing a petition that requests "review" when what the group asking for it really wants is the situation described in those articles above. However if that is what you want; if you think that is a fair and ethical way to handle the transgender individuals in our society, by all means add your name.
naivetyisthenewblack · 29/10/2018 16:48
Signed and shared.
Can't believe we're even debating this. How can anyone justify vulnerable women being locked up with men, including criminals with a history of sexual offences?
MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 29/10/2018 16:52
I think TW should be in a separate wing of a male prison. They are male with male biology after all. They need different health care etc from females.
SwearyG · 29/10/2018 16:52
Be very careful about people linking stories that don’t contain all the facts. Tara Hudson is legally and physically male. When working as an escort Hudson boasted of a “7 inch surprise”. Hudson was imprisoned for a violent assault. Why should someone like that be housed in the women’s estate, putting women at risk?
There should be no males, however they identify and regardless of plastic surgery, in women’s prisons.
Thanks OP for sharing.
naivetyisthenewblack · 29/10/2018 16:53
to actively want any transgender prisoner with XY chromosomes to be housed in the male estate
Not wanting transwomen housed with women is NOT the same thing as actively wanting them to be housed in the male estate.
FPFW is all about women's rights.
If TW aren't in women's prisons, then another option could be a trans wing of a male jail, keeping them away from the male prisoners.
Please THINK about what that means for women, to be locked up with men / TW. Stop centring TW in everything FFS.
If TW are at risk from men, them surely you must see women are under the same risk from TW. This is not just about managing the most extreme criminals like Karen White. This is about keeping vulnerable women safe not only from the worst kind of predator but also from common or garden male/ TW abusers of women, who are 10 a penny.
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