To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead18]

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

[OrchidInTheSun]

Sorry KenDodd - didn't mean to imply that this was just about Karen White. I was trying (badly!) to say that White isn't the only example. These are just the ones that we know about.

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

What is the Gender Hammer forum?

[PencilsInSpace]

I signed this a while ago. Even if you're still unsure where you stand on the many issues in this debate, surely this petition is a no brainer.

[Oldstyle]

Menstruator It's a women-only GC forum started by Peach (think she used to post here - maybe still does). www.genderhammer.com/
It's quieter than MN - but then most places are! Good resources though.

[PencilsInSpace]

Tara Hudson? Fucking hell!

Tara Hudson is the reason we're in this mess.

I've spoken to so many people who wish they had never signed the Tara Hudson petition. They weren't told that Tara has a '7" surprise' and didn't realise quite how violent a crime Tara committed.

No males in women's prisons. There are enough TW in prison to create a wing which could be in either estate as long as it's separate from women.

[HedgehogPoo]

Thank you for the link, your efforts are appreciated! I'll sign and share this.

My neighbour works in a men's prison and said that there has been a huge increase in the numbers of men claiming to be women. The Officers are fully aware that the prisoners are just hopping onto the bandwagon. The lure of getting into a women's prison is too great to be ignored and even if it is just for a day or so, it is well worth the effort. Lifers could have a field day as they have nothing to lose. Even the prospect of a trip out is worth identifying as a woman and the added attraction is that they hope to goad the prison management and the Establishment generally.

[hellsbells99]

Signed

[IsisWalnut]

Signed, such an important issue, we have to speak out for women who can't speak out for themselves.

[Sunkisses]

Signed. Please share this on your social media. It is very important this petition gets to 10,000 so the government are forced to respond

[Lefthanddown]

HedgehogPoo I have heard similar, it is creating a power differential between the officers and prisoners and between prisoners themselves. It's not just officers who think these men are jumping on a bandwagon other prisoners and their families see it too; they are also aware of and unhappy about the different rules being applied to trans prisoners regarding clothing and access to additional resources.

[LostontheWestway]

Signed.

I feel really ignorant but I had no idea this was happening to women in prisons. I'm disgusted.

[SummerBambinosMum]

RatUnholyRolyPoly I stand completely by your interpretation too, given my similar life experiences. Thank you for providing a reasonable view.

[SlowlyShrinking]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Tara Hudson head butt a barman, knocking his teeth out, because he refused service because Tara was too drunk? That’s not really the behaviour of any young woman that I know/know of. And Tara advertised the fact that they have a penis. So literally is a violent male who looks female, and was still allowed in a women’s prison 😳

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Oldstyle woman only eh? Gender Critical eh?

Thanks for the info will pop over and have a look.

[Datun]

The "violent assault" was exactly the kind of night-out fight that many young women get involved with.

Ffs. Damaging lies.

Hudson head-butted a barman causing £1500 worth of dental damage. They had eight previous convictions, including battery and what the judge called a 'worrying criminal record'.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/30/transgender-woman-tara-hudson-male-prison-bristol-loses-appeal-sentence

When confronted with women unwilling to agree they should be housed amongst incarcerated females, Hudson lost it, giving them the finger and telling women to fuck off. On national television.

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead18]

Suicide cannot be allowed to be weaponised as a means for males to enter the female estate. This is exactly how so many males have managed to find their way over there in the first place. Transwomen need to be supported in prison and the prison system needs to move in a modern direction that supports the mental health and dignity of all it's residents. The answer is NOT to make women shoulder the burden. If Ireland can recognise this, why the hell can't we? Why do women's needs and dignity always come last?

There have been reports recently about an increase of suicide and deaths of women in prison, with 3 women found dead in 10 days.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/three-female-prisoners-dead-suicide-hmp-foston-downview-bronzefield-10-days-prison-estate-a8528126.html%3famp

Considering the female estate numbers around 3k this is truly shocking. Efforts need to be made to better support women holistically whilst detained. That support would be delivered on multiple platforms and I'm damn sure that one of them, should include not having to share intimate spaces with intact males. Only the most woman hating, cruel & selfish person would inflict that on women who have likely been beaten, assaulted and above all need help to build up self esteem and boundaries.

[Penny1976]

That is truly shocking about those 3 female suicides - imagine if they had been transwomen! What an uproar there would have been.

[RatUnholyRolyPoly]

That is truly shocking about those 3 female suicides - imagine if they had been transwomen! What an uproar there would have been.

Oh, you think? Did you know that there had been at least 3 suicides of trans women held in men's prisons in 2017 (reported by the Guardian January 2018), at a time when there would be approximately only 130 trans inmates in the whole prison population?

Did you see the uproar? Was it all over the news?

No-one should be driven to suicide in prison. Not 3 in 3000 women or 3 in 130 trans men and women. We have to do our best for all our citizens. ALL of them.

[ARosebyAnyOtherNameChange]

No-one should be driven to suicide in prison. Not 3 in 3000 women or 3 in 130 trans men and women. We have to do our best for all our citizens. ALL of them

Agreed absolutely, Rat. I disagree though that that means putting males in with the women, as that isn't 'doing our best' by imprisoned women.

[RatUnholyRolyPoly]

I disagree though that that means putting males in with the women, as that isn't 'doing our best' by imprisoned women.

That's absolutely fine ARose, you're absolutely entitled to your position. All I want is for people to think about their opinion holistically, because saying "you can't just put anyone who says they're a trans woman in with the women" is not the same as saying "all trans women, regardless of their offence, their surgical status and how long they've been transitioned must be in with the men".

And yet that is the conclusion FPFW (the group behind the petition) allude to on their website, and the one being fought for by the vast majority (that I have seen) of their supporters online.

I just want everybody to know the "solution" they're putting their name to by signing this.

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

I’ve thought about my opinion, not sure if it’s been holistic thought but it has been critical thinking

Signed

[SlowlyShrinking]

Thanks Rat I’m sure there are lots of people reading who appreciate you helping them to think about stuff that they can read just as well as you

[Penny1976]

Holistically I came to the conclusion that TW are male and that a separate wing of a male prison is the right place for them.
Holistically it happened, it was amazing.

[Herja]

Signed. And yes, I absolutely do think that NO transwomen should be in a women's prison. Because none of them are women. I have no issue with them not wanting to be housed with men because men are violent and might sexually assault them - so why should all the women they want to be housed with be subjected to that concern? Transwomen should have a sepearate wing in a male prison, not be with women in a woman's prison.

[RatUnholyRolyPoly]

Thank you SummerBambinosMum