To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead18]

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

[Datun]

You know "the men" aren't trying to redefine the word "woman", right? You know words just mutate,

Right. All that harassment, threats, shutting down of debate and bomb threats. 'Mutation'.

[BeUpStanding]

Rat Do I think women should have to shower with men? I don't think women should have to shower withanyoneagainst their wishes. Do I think they should be able to say "I don't want to shower with a penis" and NOT be able to say "I don't want to shower with a vagina"? No.

How can you not see the difference?!

Petition signed

[TalkingintheDark]

Women are people. They are. In their own right. There are not amended men.

Amen to that, Datun. This is the core of it.

I would like to see a mass legal action on behalf of all those women prisoners who have been/are being forced to shower with males in UK prisons. I would like to see the UK government or the prison service or whoever is making these decisions charged with subjecting these women to the sexual crimes of exhibitionism and voyeurism.

And I hope the women that “Karen White” sexually assaulted sue the same authorities for substantial amounts of money.

This is absolutely outrageous.

(Signed, obvs.)

[TalkingintheDark]

How can you not see the difference?!

It’s extraordinary, isn’t it, BeUpStanding!

Reminiscent of when Feminist4 said the other day that if a teenage girl didn’t want to shower with an adolescent male who was wanking while watching her, she would be guilty of transphobia.

Some people’s disregard for women and girls knows no bounds.

[RatUnholyRolyPoly]

subjecting these women to the sexual crimes of exhibitionism and voyeurism

Voyeurism is not someone seeing you naked in passing, and exhibitionism is not someone obliged to be naked in your presence.

As the victim of sustained and invasive voyeurism your statement is outrageously offensive and horribly ignorant.

[megletthesecond]

Done.

[TalkingintheDark]

As the “victim of sustained and intensive voyeurism”, your stance is even more inexplicable and indefensible.

That you should wish to subject vulnerable women to being involuntarily naked in the presence of members of the opposite sex, also naked, is absolutely unforgivable.

Being seen naked by males you have not consented to be naked with is indeed to be a victim of voyeurism and there is nothing “in passing” about this situation, as well you know, nor any reduction of the offence if it were.

Being exposed to the naked genitals of a male whose genitals you haven’t consented to see is indeed to be a victim of exhibitionism.

Your dishonesty is breathtaking, as is your callousness.

[TalkingintheDark]

That was to Rat, obvs.

[FruitCider]

I've worked in female and male estates. Transmen do not want to go to the male estate, they know they are weaker and vulnerable. Trans women prisoners are stronger than their female counterparts. Many of them are also in prison for sexual offences and violent crimes. They have no right to enter the female estate.

[Datun]

Voyeurism is not someone seeing you naked in passing, and exhibitionism is not someone obliged to be naked in your presence.

Again, only being seen through the lens of the man identifying as a woman.

What about the women?

They may not want to be seen naked, in passing or otherwise. Then may not want to be forced to shower with a naked man who is 'obliged' to be nude.

[RatUnholyRolyPoly]

That you should wish to subject vulnerable women to being involuntarily naked in the presence of members of the opposite sex, also naked, is absolutely unforgivable

Oh, you didn't read my earlier post then.

I don't want people to have to be naked in front of anyone.

Your dishonesty is breathtaking, as is your callousness.

You're horrific. You show your ignorance with your offensive and flippant comments on a form of sexual assault the I myself have suffered, and by way of apology you call me breathtakingly dishonest and callous. That's pretty monstrous.

Being exposed to the naked genitals of a male whose genitals you haven’t consented to see is indeed to be a victim of exhibitionism.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. You are not the victim of exhibitionism if there is no perpetrator. If you happen to see a naked man he is not de facto a criminal sex offender.

You are staggeringly ignorant about this form of sexual assault, and yet you're throwing it around like it's just a case of someone casting you a glance in a communal shower.

Disgusting.

[RatUnholyRolyPoly]

You know what, I'm going to say it again.

You're leveraging a form of sexual assault, which you clearly no nothing about and have no genuine compassion for the victims of, to liken trans people to sex offenders.

You really need to take a look at yourself.

[MangoSplit]

Signed

[frogface69]

Signed

[HermioneWeasley]

Keep frothing Rat, you’re not convincing anyone

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead18]

Thanks so much to everyone who has signed. It's getting close to 4K now. Let's see if we can get it there by the end of the night. ❤️

[OrchidInTheSun]

I think Rat is doing a superb job of demonstrating why this idea is totally batshit

[Oldstyle]

Had already signed but have shared again on FB. Would be good to push this issue up the govt agenda. Would be even better if we got the system reversed and the safety of female prisoners accepted as the a priority for women's prisons.

[Ereshkigal]

the group who are calling for this review are very publicly known to not want only a "review"

But it looks like the petition is asking for a review? People's personal opinions are moot.

[Ereshkigal]

I've spoken to so many people who wish they had never signed the Tara Hudson petition. They weren't told that Tara has a '7" surprise' and didn't realise quite how violent a crime Tara committed.

Yes.

[Ereshkigal]

They may not want to be seen naked, in passing or otherwise. Then may not want to be forced to shower with a naked man who is 'obliged' to be nude.

Only a person with no empathy and who thought women's feelings were of no consequence would think this.

Or a dull, "edgy" contrarian stirring it up.

Genuinely not sure which.

[Ereshkigal]

I think Rat is doing a superb job of demonstrating why this idea is totally batshit

Bang up job. I've bought you a drink to say thanks Rat 🍷

[TalkingintheDark]

Rat, males who inveigle their way into a women’s prison, where they KNOW they will be showering with women who have no say in the matter, are subjecting those women to sexual assault.

No woman should ever have to be naked in front of a male, or see a male naked, unless she has consented.

The fact you can’t or won’t see this shows that you are the monstrous one, and everything you accuse me of is projection.

Thankfully you have discredited yourself so entirely in my judgement that your opinion is literally worthless.

I am truly sorry for the sexual assaults you have been a victim of; no woman deserves that, ever, but it is tragic that your coping mechanism is apparently to deny other women’s rights to boundaries and safety, to deny the severity and effect of sexual assault on them.

I can assure you that being forced to shower naked with a naked male IS a form of sexual assault and would be at the least distressing for most women, and potentially extremely traumatic for some - especially when you think how many women prisoners are already victims of male sexual violence and how this could be deeply triggering and result in them feeling re-abused.

But, as always, you are competely devoid of empathy and compassion for other women.

[TalkingintheDark]

There was a case in Texas, wasn’t there, where women prisoners had no choice but to shower with trans identifying males, but the MALES had the choice to shower separately if they so wished. It really was straight out of the Handmaid’s Tale in terms of the bare-faced misogyny.

The women there did bring a lawsuit but I don’t know what happened or if it’s still pending.