to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

[CircleSquareCircleSquare]

The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

"neonyellowshoes Thu 22-Mar-18 14:57:53

Do doctors and nurses currently have the right to refuse to treat people on the basis of gender? No, of course not. Neither does the security guard. Chaperones should always be available for personal searches anyway."

Patients have the right to request a male or female doctor. What do they do if the male or female doctor is simply someone self identifying as the opposite gender?

Hi all, we're just going to move this over to petitions.

I worked for 6 years in Child Protection in Westminster. I genuinely can't think of a single case that involved a trans person as a perpetrator.

You worked in CP and yet you're trying to stifle debate on a proposal that will increase the likelyhood of children being conceived in prison? Really?

I hope to god you no longer work in CP because you were deemed unsuitable for the role and have no opportunity to return.

Your ignorance of the lengths that predators will go to in order to access victims is more evidence of your lack of capacity for that role.

It's scary how ill equipped our professionals are for the responsibility placed on them.

Moon

Many MP's are very reluctant to discuss this issue for fear of being labelled transphobic.

The point of the petition is to force them to do as you have suggested and engage in proper consultation and debate.

I would have hoped, like you that this would just have happened- but it's not presently due to the high pressure lobbying of trans activists.

Women are now having to lobby in return to get to the situation of proper consultation and parliamentary debate that you assume will happen but frankly, without pressure won't.

Snow - if I had come across predators using the guise of self-id, then I would just say that was the case. Why wouldn't I? I'm not making this up. What do you want me to say? Yes of course identifying as a man to gain access to women is possible, but I'm not going to twist facts and say it was prevalent when it simply was not.

mustreadalaska.com/transgender-files-complaint-shelter-abused-women/

You'd want this violent male in a woman's shelter?

You'd want this violent male in a woman's shelter?

Why would you even ask me that? Anyone can find an article or case to exemplify anything.

g1itterati

Just answer the question please. It's kind of the point of the ENTIRE issue about self ID.

But g1itterati - it doesn't matter if there's been no cases of trans people being abusers, are there cases of men being abusers trying to access woman and children in vunerable situations? Because the point is any man will be able to access woman's spaces, because woman and girls will be told they shouldn't question a man being in changing rooms/toilets etc because they might identify as a woman.

I wouldn't want any violent person anywhere. One case is not the whole point of the ENTIRE issue about self-id.

I think each case of self-id is unique to that individual and nobody has the right to generalise.

glitterati - violent male offenders have to housed somewhere. We can't make them just disappear.

So, shall we house them in with men, or shall we have self ID enshrined in law, and allow them to self-ID as women, and house them in with the women?

Shall we house Ian Huntley with the men - or allow 'Lian' Huntley in with the women?

Anyway this has taken up too much of the day already. I'm repeating myself now and, as I say, I have no axe to grind. I just don't think the issue is as binary as some on here would have people believe. The thread has been moved to "petitions and activism." Good luck.

@PleaseDontGoadTheToad 🙄🙄🙄

“These people don't actually care about trans people @twofalls or the damage this whole thing is causing them. That's why they always ignore the trans posters here. They just want to pretend to be all hip and right on with no consideration for how this is hurting the people they claim to be defending.”

And yet, here you are assuming that I’m not trans, and that I don’t have first hand experiences of the trans experience. I would never pretend to be able to ‘defend’ or speak for a community I’m not part of or have in depth knowledge of.
I’m not getting into my own gender identity here, because it’s none of your business, but I’ve yet to meet a trans person in RL that has any issue with self-ID or think it will cause any problems at all.
Tbh this is a public forum and so I take anything anyone who claims to be trans here says with a pinch of salt. There are a lot of people who don’t come out on any public forum at all, not just MN, for fear of the backlash, which judging by posts on this thread, would be unrestrained.
Tbh I find it quite baffling that MNHQ seem to be fine with mis-gendering and some of the hate speech towards the community that I’ve seen here over the last few years. I doubt it would be allowed if directed to any other group.

Google whats happened in Target changing rooms.

A bomb exploded in a Target bathroom after they instigated a trans-inclusionary policy: www.advocate.com/crime/2016/6/09/bomb-explodes-chicago-area-target-bathroom

These are the people you are aligning yourself with.

Yet more credible media, and the police investigation itself, shows that this had nothing to do with the trans/bathroom argument.

The woman was trying to get high. From the Chicago Tribune:

A plastic bottle, believed to be the source of the explosion upon initial examination, was recovered from the stall in addition to "items that are commonly combined in a method to produce a chemical high, but during the mixture process can become volatile and explode," according to the release. Police said Schmidt was uninjured during the incident and left the area before police and fire departments arrived.

"There is no factual evidence that was uncovered during this investigation that points toward this incident being related to any policies of the Target store or a hate crime," the release states.

Evanston police Cmdr. Joe Dugan said speculation circulated this week that the explosion might be tied to the company's policy to let transgender patrons use the bathroom of their choice.

"It was just speculation," he said. "There's nothing that leads to that at all."

While women in the UK, who have just tried to hold meetings about this, have been attacked and harassed, and suffered actual violence.

There is an upcoming court case against a transactivist.

What's that saying "there's none so blind as those that can't see? “....... They see alright, they are just too pig headed and flying the inclusive flag that they ignore evidence. No matter, many of us are seeing and doing something to protect all children and women, because they'd throw us all under the bus to serve trendy ideologies.

Everyone is quite entitled to their own opinion on this, regardless of what's between their legs.

All this crap about freedom of speech and expression and then being aggressive and arsey towards folk who don't share the same opinion does nothing to give any merit to your cause.