to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

[CircleSquareCircleSquare]

The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

I think that, because on MN this issue is a really big deal, and you can't really miss it, we think that it's common knowledge for most.

I have found that this absolutely isn't the case IRL. I work in a female dominated field, only 1 male member of staff to 30+ females where I work and not one of them knows about this issue. When I have talked about it at work, they have all been shocked and completely on board with it.

There is a trans man, sorry if that's not the correct term, but a female who transitioned to a male, who works at our other office and I am DYING to know his views on this, but of course wouldn't like to upset or offend.

I really do feel for the genuine trans people out there who suffer with gender dysmorphia from a young age and go through the gruelling process of transitioning. My issue is NOT with these people. My issue is with Dave from down the road who wakes up one morning and decides he's going to self ID as a woman to gain access to spaces he would not usually, as a male with a penis, have access to. The penis is still there people! Whether he acknowledges it or not! I acknowledge it!

It also really bothers me that it seems to be mostly slightly older women who have taken this issue on board. I don't mean to be presumptuous, that's just what I've gathered from MN. I am 21, where are the rest of my generation? Why are they not bothered by this?

@NoSquirrels that worked thank you

I also dislike the way you make women into victims.

You dislike women being victims?

Has history passed you by or are you just ignoring facts?

I make women victims?
Not the men who systematically abuse, humiliate, manipulate and degrade women?

Signed. I don't care if it comes back to bite me. I hate people comparing this to being gay. Gay people aren't arguing biological fact

missjaysays, I think they’re all at university with me! Apparently sexism is based on your gender identity, not your sex.

University is probably where women encounter the fewest issues with sexism and are most likely to experiment in some way (hair, dress style, hobbies etc) and be accepted, so perhaps to people our age it really doesn’t seem like a big deal?

Caveat: I’m a bit older - I’m a postgrad, but have quite a few undergrad friends through clubs and societies. The only trans people I know personally were born girls and now either present as male or gender neutral.

missjaysays I'm 26 and very bothered but yes I agree. Alot of younger women do actually agree but are to scared to speak out. Oppression yet again

There are a number of reasons why I won’t sign, all of which are nobody’s business but mine. However one of them is because I don’t want to be associated with TERFS and the behaviour of people who call someone a misogynistic communist as soon as someone disagrees with them.

Jon do you actually think conversations about children's safety is transphobic?

Can you suggest a way forward that allows genuine transsexuals in and keeps autogynephiles out?

Jon what is your definition personally of transgender?All the men below are classed as transwomen because they say so. All these men could or have self id for sexual kicks. Do you agree that it's ok for these men to be around small children?

Many genuine trans people don't agree with you. I guess that makes them terfs and transphobes.

www.angelsforum.co.uk/phpforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9028&start=40

www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?249023-Age-when-you-1st-tried-on-your-sisters-sexy-panties

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/

m.youtube.com/watch?v=XAFcYTwn33A

transcrimeuk.com

womanmeanssomething.com/violencedatabase/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

Signed and my DH and DM have too.
This is really important - abusers have and do use any means to access women and girls.
And as a general principle any proposed change to law needs to involve the people who will be affected by it.

And as a general principle any proposed change to law needs to involve the people who will be affected by it.

Exactly this.

Done. Bizarre that womens orgs haven't been consulted thus far.

Skarossinkplunger Throwing insults isn’t debate. We want debate on this; proper, reasoned debate so we can get a better conclusion for everyone - including trans people who are at risk of loosing services and support funding.

I could be in a changing room today and not realise that the other women in there are lesbian. Should lesbians be segregated too in case their in there to look at me getting changed? What about when my teen daughter or son go in residential school trips and have to share a room with a gay boy or girl - should I ask for them to be segregated? This actually happens all the time and always has.

I'm sorry to say that identifying as bi-sexual is a fashion at the moment for teen girls - half my teen's class had a phase of this. Should we say they are doing it for predatory reasons too? Where do you draw the line?

they're in there!

It wasn’t a reverse way of throwing anything. I’m been called stupid, told I’m a woman hater and accused of being a man in threads on here simply because I don’t agree. This is yet another thread where people are incredulous when other disagree with them and when the answer isn’t what they want people are vilified.

So no thanks, I’m tired of explaining and you won’t listen anyway.

Skarossinkplunger I’m sorry you’ve been insulted by a few people. I think it’s a mumsnet thing though not a feminist thing 😉

All we are asking for is a voice and a debate so please don’t insult us for that. There is nothing wrong with opinions and debate - it’s really good for society.

smile - I'm not goading at all. I simply don't understand why people align the trans issue with predatory behaviour. Why?

glitterati - because the 'trans issue" - as you call it, is looking at legislation which will allow any man to use sex-segregated spaces which have been fought for by women. Predatory men just have to say they're women. They can, and will do this.

Why have women fought for these sex-segregated spaces? Well, for privacy - away from men.

Why away from men ? (and not lesbians) - Well because over 80% of violent crime, and 98% of sexual crime is committed by men. Women are overwhelmingly the victims of men's sexual crime.

Signed !
I'm usually very 'live and let live' however on this topic I strongly feel if you have a cock you do not belong in women's spaces

I signed it a few days ago and will be asking my sons to sign it this weekend.
As a pp has written it is all over Mumsnet but most people don't know it's an issue. When I was telling my sons about #manfriday and the swimming last week they were shocked as they didn't know it was going on.