Help with 18 yr old DS respecting house rules

[anotherglass]

My DS (19) is home from University for the holidays. I feel at the end of my tether with some of his behaviours while home, which I don't feel are respectful. While home he can come and go as he pleases but all I ask is that if going out at night he lets us know a general idea of where he's going / who with, and what time he'll be back. I also ask that he keeps his phone charged. We live in a semi rural area which is relatively safe but it is dark at night.
For background, he is prone to impulsive / risky behaviour such as binge drinking and setting off on jaunts at the spur of the moment, with little planning or telling anyone. He has got himself into some bad states where he has been left vulnerable in clubs, and while on holiday. I have explained how this makes us feel and that we are concerned but he dismisses how I feel / or acknowledge the issue. Last night things came to a head when I could hear the front door opening at 8.30pm and him heading out. I asked where he was going and he got annoyed and slammed the door on me. It was minus 5 degrees and the roads are very slippery and treacherous. I am at the end of my tether and about to ask him to leave and go back to his uni hall. I suffer from general anxiety is not helped by the fact that DH does not back me and setting some ground rules in the house, leaving me isolated. Please help me deal with this in a constructive way that helps DS and protects my mental health. Thankyou

OP you sound very anxious and controlling. Almost hysterical at times about the risks you feel this man faces in the world.

asking him for a estimate of when he will be home is fine, but expecting to know where he is and who he is with seems OTT. Why do you need to know that? It is clear you don’t trust him, however you can’t treat him like a 14 year old. He will make mistakes, we all do. And clearly he doesn’t live his life like you do.

I have an anxious and controlling parent - I have distanced myself from him because it’s exhausting. It is also damaging to continually here what might go wrong and second guessing your every move.

perhaps you could consider some counseling? You are in danger of losing what relationship you have left.

I am not happy for my home to be treated like a hotel.

You've said this a few times, and I think it's telling. Yes, it's his home and I wouldn't expect as much communication as you would say from a house guest (however close a friend or extended family member) who was not a household member and who had come specifically to visit you. But it IS reasonable to expect him to be reasonably civil; to respect any "house rules"; and to function AS a member of the household, contributing to the harmonious environment and not causing unnecessary upset or inconvenience for other household members.

He should tell you if he's planning to be out overnight (as I imagine you and his dad would tell him if you went out of town for a few days while he was "home") and whether or not he'll be joining you for for dinner if he normally eats with you/eats what you've prepared when he's home. And of course he should be doing his laundry (unless someone else offers to do a group load), keeping his room clean, picking up his rubbish/dishes/belongings left in the communal areas, etc. I wouldn't expect him to say where he is going and with whom, though (and often he may not know). Something like "I'm going into the city centre to run some errands, may meet up with friends later, don't expect me for dinner" would be polite/considerate but I can understand his annoyance if you're typically pressing him for more than that.

I can't really tell if his specific reckless behaviours that you've mentioned directly involve you or if you're just hearing about them after the fact. I understand it's a worrying pattern either way, but if it's happened more than once that you or other household members have been required to "rescue" him when on an evening out, that's something that needs to be specifically addressed and you and his dad probably DO have to be in basic agreement about how it's handled.

In reply to @Tillow4ever you said

"You have made this squarely about control"

"I am asking for basic courtesy"

They are intertwined though @anotherglass aren't they?

Yes, courtesy shows respect, rules that are overly numerous or enforced without mutual agreement amongst adults can feel controlling and lead to resentment though.

Effective house rules operate through mutual agreement and respect

Sadly, you appear to display neither, hence the difficulty

eta; add & sp

Agree with this. Also the thing about phone being charged. I don’t know a teen whose phone isn’t max charged - it’s like their oxygen! Big clue is the refs to his headphones always being in - that means his phone is charged. Likely he has it on airplane mode to cut down on what he likely sees as harassment, intrusion and control. If so he’s already lying to you.

The ‘hotel services’ you provide is 100% on you and IMHO poor parenting. I am privileged enough to have a cleaner but my kids have had chores from whenever they were able to pick their pants off the floor, peel a potato, run a hoover around and do their own laundry. This isn’t even about the actual chores - it’s about flagging teamwork, independence and life skills which as a parent I believe are my job to instil. It’s about collaborating not doing the ‘hotel services’ as a transactional passive aggressive expectation of information to relieve your irrational fears punished by banishment to uni halls. That’s not mature emotional behaviour on your part and will not achieve the compromise and respect you are seeking. Please seek support to work on your own MH. The rest will fall into place.

I understand how you feel but, quite bluntly, him telling you roughly where and when he's going out and having a charged phoine is not going to reduce any of the actual risk to him. He'll still be wandering in parks at night, he'll still potentially be binge drinking etc. The only difference MIght be that if he doesnt turn up in the morning, you have, at best, a starting point to look for him.

The reality is that the worry is normal and understandable but it is YOUR problem, not his. You can and should insist on basic politeness and respect in your home, but he doesn't need to update you on where he's going in real time and he certainly doesn't need to ensure he's always available to answer your calls.

I WOULD consider someone leaving the house without saying goodbye rude, but in a more general sense. ie "Mum, I'm going out to meet Billy. Not sure when I'll be back. see you later" kind of way would be appropriate. Not "Mum, I'm goign to meet Billy and we'll go to the Red Rose, then we're goign to the Boogie Night lub and I'll be home at 2am on the dot, won't drink too much and you can call me anytime."

Perhaps you have support to deal with the kid stresses. I don't.

Actually YOU are making it about control but telling yourself it’s concern. If it were truly concern, you’d have those concerns when he’s at uni too.

We have all, including myself, agreed that some basic courtesy is needed (although I have no issue with an “I’m off out now, see you later” as they’re about to leave - why do you need more than that? Why does he need to ask you permission to leave the house and how far in advance do you need it? My friend has just messaged me to ask if I fancy a wander to play some Pokemon go together. I’m going to put my shoes and coat on and then shout “see you later” to my husband and kids - according to you that’s a big no, no. But I’m an adult, and so is your son, so I can do that (my kids don’t need me to be at home for childcare)).

You clearly just wanted us all to agree you are right and your son is wrong as you won’t even concede considering a compromise, so you’re probably better off leaving this post now. But if you want to save your relationship with your son, listen to what the majority of us are telling you.

As for your older son - that was me at home. I had to be the good one. I had to do exactly what my parents wanted etc. I barely see them as an adult and I live a 3 min walk from them. My little sister was the rebellious one, like your younger son. I was so envious of her doing what she wanted when I couldn’t because of the expectations on me. Chances are your son feels stifled by you and is pushing back. And I don’t blame him. You need a compromise - you said earlier you wanted a middle ground. If you meant that, talk to him at a neutral time, and agree a compromise that will make you feel better, but that he doesn’t feel suffocated by.

Heres a suggestion - buy him a small power bank rather than insisting he checks his phone is charged. I have a mag safe one (you need a case that supports this) and it it tiny - no wires, just sticks to the back of my phone. If he were to agree to that, you would feel more relaxed about his phone running out of charge and he wouldn’t feel nagged.

If he’s going out, agree a time he lets you know by OR tell him that you will assume he’s out every day unless he tells you by x time that he will be home for dinner. If he’s doesn’t let you know, he will need to cook for himself.

Stop asking where he’s going and who with. Ask him to let you know if he’s coming home or staying overnight and check he has a key.

There are definitely compromises you can come up with, but you need to be prepared to admit it’s been about control not concern - because all of these compromises will help you to feel less concerned but won’t give you any control. Whereas what you are asking for gives you all of the control.

You have some good advice but unfortunately your tone is lecturing.

yes, we get it. You have GAD and are overinvested in your adult children's lives.

You say "courtesy" but everyone, including us and your DH is hearing "control"

There has been excellent advice on this thread which you (as you are free to do) are ignoring, rejecting and determined not to take on board. That is on you not the advice givers.

@youalright sorry to hear it's happening to you. A chat over a cup of tea with a lot of sympathy and listening and only then maybe a bit of "i worry so please let me know when you will be back" might help.

OP what support do you think would help?

I totally understand you disapprove of his lifestyle and you want him to stop what you consider to be risky behaviour. He might grow out of this (you have disproved a lot of blokes I went to university with who are now in pretty senior roles and leading normal lives).

What will happen over the years is he will pull further and further away from you. You are right that you need support - look into a local counselor who specializes in anxiety.

You need to remember he’s an adult. Find to ask him to tell you he’s going out, fine to ask him to tell you if he’s staying out overnight / bringing someone back but beyond that you need to back off or you can loose him. He doesn’t need to tell you where he’s going or who with, that’s overstepping. My dc have always complied but I never once pried or insisted on information instead I appeared interested yet laid back eg “up to anything interesting tonight?” We are past this stage now thankfully

And your tone is defensive and combatative.

OP, you really are going to need to look at what you expect and want from your DS and try take a step bak as to what is fair and reasonable and what is YOUR problem. Otherwise you'll just push him more and moreaway and his behaviours will not only get riskier, but he'll be less and less likely to ever call you for help or be open with you.

I think you don’t want to hear anything that contradicts your opinion.

I would see you as the emotionally neglectful parent here. Neglecting their ability to become independent, private adults. We are here to give our DC wings.

Yet again you double down to twist your control to be concern despite what 99.9% of experienced parents can see and have taken the time out of their day to explain to you.

You are just proving yourself wrong with every post. I expect your other DS has endured the real heavy weight of your unboundaried anxiety as a child and what you see as a compliance adult is submission and toxic people pleasing.

I am too tired to try and fix things. I don't think I am cut out to be a good parent.

By the way, how do you know your son “walks through parks late at night with headphones on”?

don't be silly, OP. You have done all the work, and now you have to sit back and let them live their lives. It sounds as though your DH has grasped this but you don't want to.

It is hard. You have children and bring them up and then you have to let them go. You have done what you are supposed to do and now, am assuming this is your last child?, you have to let the last one go and move on to the next stage in your life.

You can do this.

But when he’s away at uni he is potentially putting himself in risky situations and you seem to cope with that ok? Or have you lay awake worrying for the last 3 months?

He’s an adult, he doesn’t need to tell you where he’s going. Yes it would be nice if he did and I always told my mum what I was up to, but the more you make it a big deal, the less likely he is to come home in future holidays.

This is manipulative as fuck op. You don’t get the responses you want to hear, so now you try to turn it around saying you don’t think you’re cut out to be a good parent so the tone of responses change and tell you not to be silly, you are a good parent, you are just worried about your son.

i imagine your sons have had to deal with this sort of emotional manipulation their entire lives, haven’t they? Well I’m not going to play your game. I guess you aren’t cut out to be a good parent to adult children if you refuse to listen to advice given and instead choose to try to manipulate, emotionally blackmail and control your kids. If you are prepared to try though, land your helicopter and treat your children like the ADULTS they are.

He’s 18. Legally it’s game over. He can do what he wants with no recourse to you. The only power you have is money and providing the house - power you are definitely wielding now with your constant “like a hotel” refrain. I only ever hear this phrase from difficult parents - never once heard any parent I respect or am friends with speaking like this about their university aged kids.

I think you are finding the transition difficult. Your anxiety is clouding your judgement and you are still parenting a little boy, not an adult.

Why not have a chat with him - call it a reset. Explain you are trying to manage your anxiety and you know you have gone a bit OTT. You have been transferring your anxiety to him with inappropriate rules and requests rather than managing it yourself:

Acknowledging that is a big step. Then say you would like a rough indicator of when to expect him home and whether he will be eating with you. Explain you will no longer ask where he is going and who with - and if he sees you slipping back into old habits he has your permission to (gently) remind you it is just your anxiety talking.

it’s not his job to manage your anxiety. And OP remember this will likely get worse as you age. Breaking the habits now will hopefully mean you son is more tolerant of the 80 year old you who might call him every day to warn about car accidents and amber snow alerts!

And 3, 2, 1 …. ‘the victim flounce’ - have a read up on ‘the drama triangle’ and see if you can recognise any unhealthy emotional dynamics that might be at play in your behaviours.

You need to take responsibility and accountability to support your own emotional and MH here which is clearly at the of its tether. You need professional guidance to build your emotional capacity and coping mechanisms so that they don’t continue to spill out in reactive behaviours which is what is causing damage to the relationship with your DS.

The trouble is, your concern is being manifested as control.

He needs the chance to be in control of his own life, and not expect mum to want details of where he is going, who he is meeting and what time he is coming back. If he has a key, it really shouldn't matter to you what time he comes in, as long as he doesn't slam doors and disturb you.

@anotherglass
"You have some good advice but unfortunately your tone is lecturing" So you'll know exactly how your son feels.

"I am too tired to try and fix things. I don't think I am cut out to be a good parent."

@Tillow4ever "This is manipulative as fuck op" this, absolutely spot on

It is not hard to adjust your parenting an adult child, it does, however, require introspection, not, domination @anotherglass

As to risky choices, he thinks he knows best. In many ways he is cautious and considered but then does stupid things. I think it is emotional immaturity but he is also very strong-willed. This is why it is hard being the parent of a young adult who will inevitably learn through consequences.