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Parents of adult children

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Bitterly disappointed

201 replies

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 13:52

tv show television GIF by Chrisley Knows Best

Our son is 23. Over 4 years he hasn't looked for work, he's worked about 4 months total over those years and was let go of both those jobs. When he would come to us for money, we would give him work to do in his craft, he could add these commissions to his profile, so it would benefit him. We didn't need it done, it was just a way for him to earn money and build his portfolio simultaneously while getting paid what he would make doing a job at a retail store. He resents that we don't just give him money, and calls us transactional. I received an email from his girlfriends mom admonishing me for not paying him industry standard and that a kid needs to eat. I assured her I could see his bank account and he was eating ubereats so he wasn't going hungry and that the work wasn't really even for us, and we simply pay him what he would make in retail, giving him the option to avoid working a "normal" job and allowing him to do what he loves. A few months later he asked for money again. We reminded him he never did the last project for us. He told us he never intended to do the job because we weren't paying him "industry standard". We noted he was not doing well in school, not working, not doing his channel and we weren't going to give him any more money because he makes no effort to help himself 3 years was enough time to have gotten this sorted. This went down like a lead balloon. Nevertheless, from our perspective, once he made the effort to support himself, we'd happily kick in whatever extra he needs for bills if he isn't spending it all irresponsibly.

18 months go by and he gets no job, doesn't build content for his channel and leaves school. He has not asked us for money. We are going insane. We can't understand why someone his age isn't eager to work. Especially given the golden goose of a channel he has on youtube.

Two weeks ago we find out that my son's girlfriend's parents have taken out a loan of several thousand pounds to pay for one of his expenses. They have also been paying his rent for over a year now as well as covering food costs etc. This is in addition to their daughters rent and costs (they share student housing, they each have their own bedroom in a 4 bedroom share). We are flipping out. First, the expense wasn't time critical. It is something we would have helped him negotiate terms for that would have been doable for him without anyone taking out a high interest loan. Second, who does this? Who are these people to come into our lives and undermine a very simple life lesson we are desperate for him to learn? Nobody will pay your way, you have to support yourself (or at least try!!!!). Now his experience is that people will, indeed, pay your way! I mean, I have never in my life met anyone who would do this. Why are they not bothered that at 23yo he's not making an effort for himself? Is it a matter of seeking to make him reliant on them so they can keep the kids close? They have been dating for 3 years. To make it worse, her parents can't afford it. I'm embarrassed that my son would take from her family before going out and doing work for himself. He knows that making that effort would be enough to rely on us to pitch in to help make ends meet for him. I feel like I'm in crazytown. In the email she sent me years ago about industry standard rates, she said she would do anything to make her kids life easier. I responded saying that I would offer my son opportunities, but he had to make the effort to take those opportunities. Sure, we could support him for the rest of his life, but surely that's not normal right?

After all this venting, in the end I realize there is nothing I can do. He has chosen to remove us from the financial aspect of his life, so we are respecting that decision and don't bring it up. We are trying to build an adult relationship in the space we're all comfortable in and we have plenty else to talk about and build on, but it breaks my heart that he's not eager to make a life for himself and that he's willing to have other people work hard to take care of him when he is capable of doing this for himself.

Anyone else bitterly disappointed in the decisions their adult children are making?

OP posts:
ceneta · 28/03/2024 17:50

I've just reread your original post again. You say your son describes you as 'transactional'. I think you should listen as it's how you're coming across here. Everything you are doing for him seems to have strings attached. And it hasn't worked. He's an adult now and making his own choices but they're not yours. You both need to find a way forward in your relationship. You're disappointed in him and he's turning elsewhere for support. That's not a good position to be in.

blacksax · 28/03/2024 17:50

This has to be one of the most confrontational, antagonistic and argumentative OPs I have come across in a very long time. The sheer point blank refusal to acknowledge anyone else's opinion or point of view is staggering.

The poor lad. No wonder his GF's parents have taken him under their wing. I'd have done the same.

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 17:55

ceneta · 28/03/2024 17:50

I've just reread your original post again. You say your son describes you as 'transactional'. I think you should listen as it's how you're coming across here. Everything you are doing for him seems to have strings attached. And it hasn't worked. He's an adult now and making his own choices but they're not yours. You both need to find a way forward in your relationship. You're disappointed in him and he's turning elsewhere for support. That's not a good position to be in.

Why shouldn't it be transactional?
Why should an adult keep begging for money with no means of paying it back?

blacksax · 28/03/2024 18:02

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:53

Stay tuned for my post about how disappointed I am in my parents. 😂

I can hardly wait.

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 18:10

blacksax · 28/03/2024 17:50

This has to be one of the most confrontational, antagonistic and argumentative OPs I have come across in a very long time. The sheer point blank refusal to acknowledge anyone else's opinion or point of view is staggering.

The poor lad. No wonder his GF's parents have taken him under their wing. I'd have done the same.

Well, let's have a guess why. 1. because I didn't ask anyone for their opinion, and its is actually confrontational and antagonistic to make assumptions and try to solve other people's non existent problems. 2. The question I DID ask, was if anyone was dealing with life choices their child has made that they find disappointing, of which there has been a point blank refusal of anyone to acknowledge or answer. I've been magnanimous in my willingness to add details for the sake of other people's curiousity. I understand more context helps to get the bigger picture, but I have never asked "am I wrong?" because unlike you, I have been here through the entire 365 days x 4 this has played out over and I know, as does my son, that he has more support than 99% of his friends.

OP posts:
BruFord · 28/03/2024 18:10

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/03/2024 18:18

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You don’t think it’s just about conceivable that a speaker of American English (might be American, might not) has moved to the UK and is living here? If it is American English the whole thing has to be fake? 🧐

Happywrappy · 28/03/2024 18:19

Don’t understand the abuse OP is getting 😅. Totally reasonable to encourage attending a cheaper uni in Scotland to reduce financial burden (most are v good quality institutions and the Scots are lovely). Totally reasonable for an adult to be expected to work. I worked all through uni (25 years ago) and all young people in my family work (typically starting from age 14). It’s not unusual. I’d be v embarrassed/ annoyed if in a similar situation. But I think you can just stay out of it now knowing you’ve tried your best and some people are just a bit dumb (and your son is evidently happy to take advantage of that stupidity by the sounds of it). He’ll probably go far as a master manipulator!

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 18:26

Happywrappy · 28/03/2024 18:19

Don’t understand the abuse OP is getting 😅. Totally reasonable to encourage attending a cheaper uni in Scotland to reduce financial burden (most are v good quality institutions and the Scots are lovely). Totally reasonable for an adult to be expected to work. I worked all through uni (25 years ago) and all young people in my family work (typically starting from age 14). It’s not unusual. I’d be v embarrassed/ annoyed if in a similar situation. But I think you can just stay out of it now knowing you’ve tried your best and some people are just a bit dumb (and your son is evidently happy to take advantage of that stupidity by the sounds of it). He’ll probably go far as a master manipulator!

Agreed. lol

I do feel a little uneasy about how far he'd be willing to take it. Definitely telling him his inheritance in locked in a trust and he must perform various circus tricks with our without us being alive. Perhaps that will be incentive enough to let us live a bit longer. 😂

OP posts:
BruFord · 28/03/2024 18:28

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/03/2024 18:18

You don’t think it’s just about conceivable that a speaker of American English (might be American, might not) has moved to the UK and is living here? If it is American English the whole thing has to be fake? 🧐

Edited

I’ve done the opposite move UK to US so of course it’s conceivable! @TheCountessofFitzdotterel

But, Americans typically start saving for their children’s university fees from birth as it’s so expensive here, so I just don’t believe this thread.

English tuition is very low in comparison, I doubt they’d bother trying to send him to Scotland!

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 18:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I'm a dual citizen living in the UK

OP posts:
Jeannie88 · 28/03/2024 18:31

So basically he is bumming around gaming and making no effort with his degree, talent or you tube site? In that case yes he needs a reality check and with student loans his fees will be covered and some rent, some from you and the rest most students do work, even if just holiday jobs. It sounds as if you are fed up with his laziness, understandable, so to have his gf's parents encouraging it isn't on. He needs to take responsibility and do something positive, is he depressed, overwhelmed? Lots of reasons but does come down to he's just coasting and relying on others to bail him out, which can't go on eternally.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 18:31

BruFord · 28/03/2024 18:28

I’ve done the opposite move UK to US so of course it’s conceivable! @TheCountessofFitzdotterel

But, Americans typically start saving for their children’s university fees from birth as it’s so expensive here, so I just don’t believe this thread.

English tuition is very low in comparison, I doubt they’d bother trying to send him to Scotland!

Yes, I actually have no son. I just have a pony and pretend its my son. I'm a pow who escaped and joined an Iranian circus and spend my days dropping into random momsnet threads and making up pretend problems during my acts.

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 18:33

Jeannie88 · 28/03/2024 18:31

So basically he is bumming around gaming and making no effort with his degree, talent or you tube site? In that case yes he needs a reality check and with student loans his fees will be covered and some rent, some from you and the rest most students do work, even if just holiday jobs. It sounds as if you are fed up with his laziness, understandable, so to have his gf's parents encouraging it isn't on. He needs to take responsibility and do something positive, is he depressed, overwhelmed? Lots of reasons but does come down to he's just coasting and relying on others to bail him out, which can't go on eternally.

Yes, this is it. I'm ready to see him fly. His wings are clipped now and he's struggling to get himself going. I felt like work would propel him forward and that's been thwarted. I'm sure he'll get there in the end, but its like he a writers block on life right now.

OP posts:
BruFord · 28/03/2024 18:36

I just find it bizarre that you weren’t prepared to make a significant financial contribution to his college costs like most Americans do. Going to college in England is so cheap compared with the US-why won’t you pay towards his student housing, for example?

Sorry if this is a genuine thread, I’m just surprised.

I completely agree that if he’s messing around gaming and not working, that’s ridiculous.

BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 18:36

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 18:33

Yes, this is it. I'm ready to see him fly. His wings are clipped now and he's struggling to get himself going. I felt like work would propel him forward and that's been thwarted. I'm sure he'll get there in the end, but its like he a writers block on life right now.

I do wonder if this is partly a cultural difference if you were brought up in the US, but your son has mainly UK cultural references. From what I’ve seen, Americans are a lot more enthusiastic about the benefits of work than the average Brit.

No judgement either way, but it does seem very different.

BusyMummy001 · 28/03/2024 18:39

I am confused.

Are you/your DH and your son UK resident? Does/did he qualify for UK fees and a UK govt loan for fees/maintenance grant? And if he does, surely that means you only need to top up his maintenance grant. If not, which seems to be the case as you mention he has private health/dental plans and thus is not eligible for NHS treatment, then surely you are liable for his fees/maintenance, and if you cannot provide it he will obviously have to drop out unless he has a loan arranged via the US, because how can he pay his fees/living costs otherwise?

The rules re Scottish eligibility for free tuition require you to be resident for 3 years not 1 year. In fact to be eligible for ‘home’ student fees anywhere in the UK you have to not only be a UK citizen or have UK residence status but also have lived in the UK for 3 years prior to starting your course. For overseas students on a student visa, they NEVER become eligible for free tuition. Again, without knowing his nationality/residency status it is hard to understand your post.

Re ADHD - it sounds as though it has not been managed properly and that this is actually the root of his academic issues and problems keeping a job - as a parent, SURELY you should be investigating whether the medication you are titrating is actually working and arranging psychiatric reassessment and, if necessary, therapy? If it is mismanaged it is absolutely unreasonable to expect him to work to support himself, or with that stress and the ADHD haze to be able to perform on his course. He needs pastoral and financial support and, I assume, he has started his course in the expectation that you would provide this.

My feeling is that you are somehow misconstruing the rules around student fees in the UK and that you truly don’t understand the needs his ADHD creates. I think you have abandoned him.

And I say this as the mother of a bright but struggling ASD/ADHD child who is home schooling with the intention of applying to uni within commutable distance so she can live at home, have full daily support while we tinker with medication (which is constantly changing/being adjusted). You have to scaffold them into adulthood and accept their social and neurological development follows a delayed path compared to their peers. It doesn’t seem that you understand this.

Momof2dd · 28/03/2024 18:40

I don't understand all the MN abuse you're getting...
He's 23, get a job FFS. Why should you as his parent help him out ?
I had a job at 16 whilst in college, then in University doing. Computer Science degree. I worked 16 hours a week as well as studying. I did live at home, and gave my mum rent and helped with bills.
I don't understand how people can agree that the sons gfs parents have given him money for what ? Uber eats ?
I'd be disappointed too if my grown up child was like this. He needs a kick up the ass, and get in the real world.
Feel for you OP, you sound like an amazing parent who was trying to show you son how the "real world works" 😊 keep being you.

BruFord · 28/03/2024 18:47

@Momof2dd I think not helping with his rent on his student accommodation and his food is pretty harsh, tbh. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t helped their child financially while at uni.

The gf’s parents have been amazingly daft taking out a high-interest loan to help him though.

Wimpeyspread · 28/03/2024 18:50

BruFord · 28/03/2024 18:47

@Momof2dd I think not helping with his rent on his student accommodation and his food is pretty harsh, tbh. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t helped their child financially while at uni.

The gf’s parents have been amazingly daft taking out a high-interest loan to help him though.

Edited

But he’s no longer at uni, he’s dropped out - he’s not a student so he needs to get a job

Yogatoga1 · 28/03/2024 18:51

Momof2dd · 28/03/2024 18:40

I don't understand all the MN abuse you're getting...
He's 23, get a job FFS. Why should you as his parent help him out ?
I had a job at 16 whilst in college, then in University doing. Computer Science degree. I worked 16 hours a week as well as studying. I did live at home, and gave my mum rent and helped with bills.
I don't understand how people can agree that the sons gfs parents have given him money for what ? Uber eats ?
I'd be disappointed too if my grown up child was like this. He needs a kick up the ass, and get in the real world.
Feel for you OP, you sound like an amazing parent who was trying to show you son how the "real world works" 😊 keep being you.

Edited

It’s not helping or not helping, it’s the attached strings.

we won’t help unless you move to scotland (!)
we won’t help unless you do your YouTube channel.
we won’t help unless…

plus being able to see his bank accounts, what he order on Ubereats, all smacks of using money as control.

either help or don’t, stop putting conditions on it.

Momof2dd · 28/03/2024 18:52

@BruFord that's what jobs are for surely ? Not the bank of mum and dad ? I never got financial help whilst being in uni, I worked for the lifestyle I wanted.

BruFord · 28/03/2024 18:54

@Wimpeyspread Yes, the OP mentioned the loan and financial history though and seems really angry about it, which I don’t fully understand.

Momof2dd · 28/03/2024 18:55

@Yogatoga1 that's their parenting style, they're trying to push him with some incentive as it sounds as if he doesn't want to look for a job unless it's something in it for him. They're are just trying to help him, but you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped I guess.

Ahugga · 28/03/2024 18:57

OP you sound controlling and manipulative. It's interesting that you've chosen not to name the course or "craft" or what his youtube channel is. I suspect he might not be the layabout you portray him as. Why do you keep banging on about Scotland? It doesn't actually make any difference to you - it's his debt, not yours. I find it unlikely that his girlfriends parents would be supporting him if he was truly so useless. How do you know how long he spends gaming?