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Parents of adult children

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Bitterly disappointed

201 replies

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 13:52

tv show television GIF by Chrisley Knows Best

Our son is 23. Over 4 years he hasn't looked for work, he's worked about 4 months total over those years and was let go of both those jobs. When he would come to us for money, we would give him work to do in his craft, he could add these commissions to his profile, so it would benefit him. We didn't need it done, it was just a way for him to earn money and build his portfolio simultaneously while getting paid what he would make doing a job at a retail store. He resents that we don't just give him money, and calls us transactional. I received an email from his girlfriends mom admonishing me for not paying him industry standard and that a kid needs to eat. I assured her I could see his bank account and he was eating ubereats so he wasn't going hungry and that the work wasn't really even for us, and we simply pay him what he would make in retail, giving him the option to avoid working a "normal" job and allowing him to do what he loves. A few months later he asked for money again. We reminded him he never did the last project for us. He told us he never intended to do the job because we weren't paying him "industry standard". We noted he was not doing well in school, not working, not doing his channel and we weren't going to give him any more money because he makes no effort to help himself 3 years was enough time to have gotten this sorted. This went down like a lead balloon. Nevertheless, from our perspective, once he made the effort to support himself, we'd happily kick in whatever extra he needs for bills if he isn't spending it all irresponsibly.

18 months go by and he gets no job, doesn't build content for his channel and leaves school. He has not asked us for money. We are going insane. We can't understand why someone his age isn't eager to work. Especially given the golden goose of a channel he has on youtube.

Two weeks ago we find out that my son's girlfriend's parents have taken out a loan of several thousand pounds to pay for one of his expenses. They have also been paying his rent for over a year now as well as covering food costs etc. This is in addition to their daughters rent and costs (they share student housing, they each have their own bedroom in a 4 bedroom share). We are flipping out. First, the expense wasn't time critical. It is something we would have helped him negotiate terms for that would have been doable for him without anyone taking out a high interest loan. Second, who does this? Who are these people to come into our lives and undermine a very simple life lesson we are desperate for him to learn? Nobody will pay your way, you have to support yourself (or at least try!!!!). Now his experience is that people will, indeed, pay your way! I mean, I have never in my life met anyone who would do this. Why are they not bothered that at 23yo he's not making an effort for himself? Is it a matter of seeking to make him reliant on them so they can keep the kids close? They have been dating for 3 years. To make it worse, her parents can't afford it. I'm embarrassed that my son would take from her family before going out and doing work for himself. He knows that making that effort would be enough to rely on us to pitch in to help make ends meet for him. I feel like I'm in crazytown. In the email she sent me years ago about industry standard rates, she said she would do anything to make her kids life easier. I responded saying that I would offer my son opportunities, but he had to make the effort to take those opportunities. Sure, we could support him for the rest of his life, but surely that's not normal right?

After all this venting, in the end I realize there is nothing I can do. He has chosen to remove us from the financial aspect of his life, so we are respecting that decision and don't bring it up. We are trying to build an adult relationship in the space we're all comfortable in and we have plenty else to talk about and build on, but it breaks my heart that he's not eager to make a life for himself and that he's willing to have other people work hard to take care of him when he is capable of doing this for himself.

Anyone else bitterly disappointed in the decisions their adult children are making?

OP posts:
BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 17:10

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:08

I wanted him to go where the student loans would be less of a burden on him. I personally don't like being in debt, so wanted him to have the best start for himself. If we moved to scotland it would be cheaper for us to live there, thus more ability to help. Win/win. we have more money for helping, he has less loans in the end. It's not difficult.

Bit could you have moved to Scotland when he was in secondary school? The school system (and I mean school, not university) is very different

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:15

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:48

I know exactly what they meant. That was the point of my reply.
He needed to chose a degree where he could complete it himself and support himself with the abundance of help he's been given.

If an adult chooses a degree where they need to support themselves and they can't work that's them making a problem.

So he should have chosen a doss subject with no real value so he could have low attendence in order to work while studying...

Interesting plan

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:16

Terrribletwos · 28/03/2024 17:03

You need to take a serious step back from his life (I know, not easy!) and leave him be for now.

Yes agreed. My husband and I decided a few months ago to detach completely from his money/work situation and follow his lead on what he prefers to talk about. He's coming home in two weeks to have a bunch of dental work done and we're fully prepared to ignore the whole thing and watch movies together. 😊

OP posts:
Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 17:17

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:15

So he should have chosen a doss subject with no real value so he could have low attendence in order to work while studying...

Interesting plan

Or work for years then return as a mature student as a financially secure adult.

Just because an individual wants something doesn't mean they get it.

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 17:19

BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 17:09

Yes. If their degree allows them to.

it is very unfair if parents don’t support them in term time if they have a high intensity course, or specific challenges, and it’s due to the parents’ finances that the student is disadvantaged loan-wise.

Then chose a degree that allows ot or make another life plan.

Tough shit. That's life and the system isn't going to change.
So adults who want to make adult choices need to learn to do so and not blame their failing on other people

Mirabai · 28/03/2024 17:19

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:16

Yes agreed. My husband and I decided a few months ago to detach completely from his money/work situation and follow his lead on what he prefers to talk about. He's coming home in two weeks to have a bunch of dental work done and we're fully prepared to ignore the whole thing and watch movies together. 😊

That really is the only thing you can do.

Patchworksack · 28/03/2024 17:19

The maximum student maintenance loan (or the loan topped up with expected parental contribution) is not enough to pay basic rent and food in most cases - students would still have to work either in term time or the holidays to not get into further debt. The grandparents £6k(which you also seem to disapprove of?)would have disappeared fairly quickly. I think you misjudged the balance between not bankrolling his lifestyle but supporting him to study.
So now he has huge student debts, is in debt to the girlfriend’s parents, has no degree and no job. I’d be disappointed but I think you need to acknowledge your part in setting him up to fail.
Presumably the parents tolerance or ability to bankroll him will stop at some point and then he will sink or swim on his own.

AmethystSparkles · 28/03/2024 17:20

He’s got adhd and you’re expecting him to complete his uni work and run a successful YouTube channel? I don’t think you have much understanding of adhd. The thought of doing work puts a mental block in place however much time someone has.

It’s not your son’s fault that you earn enough that he doesn’t get the full maintenance loan. Also you should not have made your son choose whether your whole family moves to Scotland. That’s a huge decision even for an adult.

You sound quite bonkers. Just try to calm down and be a bit more relaxed. Maybe watch some Buddhism videos. Give him time. Otherwise you’ll lose him.

ChanelNo19EDT · 28/03/2024 17:22

yeh, i have adhd, and although i didn't know that when i was younger, i can only focus on one important thing at a time.

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:25

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 17:17

Or work for years then return as a mature student as a financially secure adult.

Just because an individual wants something doesn't mean they get it.

No but that's pretty disgusting parenting.

Actually that was nearly the situation I was in, my mother and boyfriend refused to help me regarding uni - luckily I was estranged the year before I went so got the full government loan and bursary.

And in return for that I'll never speak with my mother again and she can die without even knowing she has a grandchild.

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:27

@Wibblywobblylikejelly And there was only 2 mature students on my course of about 200. Stuck out like a sore thumb

Whatifthehokeycokey · 28/03/2024 17:28

Gosh, well he'd better not break up with his girlfriend.

Luddite26 · 28/03/2024 17:28

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Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 17:29

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:27

@Wibblywobblylikejelly And there was only 2 mature students on my course of about 200. Stuck out like a sore thumb

So you belive that an adult gets to dictate to others how they must use their money.

But heaven forbid they then want a say in how its spent.

They should just have it. Because they said so?

At 18 your an adult. So you either act like an adult. Or you're not.

Luddite26 · 28/03/2024 17:30

I really don't agree with an adults bursary being dependent on a parents income. I mean at 18 you are legally an adult and this is a example of how wrong it is

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:33

Luddite26 · 28/03/2024 17:30

I really don't agree with an adults bursary being dependent on a parents income. I mean at 18 you are legally an adult and this is a example of how wrong it is

This is honestly the crux of the problem isn't it.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:34

Patchworksack · 28/03/2024 17:19

The maximum student maintenance loan (or the loan topped up with expected parental contribution) is not enough to pay basic rent and food in most cases - students would still have to work either in term time or the holidays to not get into further debt. The grandparents £6k(which you also seem to disapprove of?)would have disappeared fairly quickly. I think you misjudged the balance between not bankrolling his lifestyle but supporting him to study.
So now he has huge student debts, is in debt to the girlfriend’s parents, has no degree and no job. I’d be disappointed but I think you need to acknowledge your part in setting him up to fail.
Presumably the parents tolerance or ability to bankroll him will stop at some point and then he will sink or swim on his own.

I was thrilled my parents contributed. It was very generous and unexpected. We did a budget for him and had a spreadsheet that laid out how much he had to spend for all his bills and food. We can't stop him from spending money where he wants to and he overspent. That meant getting a job would come soon and would also have to be more hours that we prepared in his budget. At the point we stopped helping was the point where he was no longer turning in assignments, was not doing youtube and was not working. Doing any of those three things, or hell, even volunteering somewhere would have changed our willingness to help. We didn't withdraw support and then he stopped doing well, quite the opposite. Between adhd and starting the year of covid in Uni, he had a hard row to hoe. It was possibly the worst start imaginable for him. At that point he was undiagnosed. I must say I am not worried about him in the sense that I know he'll land on his feet. We have a great relationship, he's always welcome here and at his gfs house. It was much more about him getting inspired to LIVE. I really thought getting a job would lead to him deciding to put more effort into his channel which I know will bring him massive fulfillment. He needs a schedule so much. :-(

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:36

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:25

No but that's pretty disgusting parenting.

Actually that was nearly the situation I was in, my mother and boyfriend refused to help me regarding uni - luckily I was estranged the year before I went so got the full government loan and bursary.

And in return for that I'll never speak with my mother again and she can die without even knowing she has a grandchild.

Damn.

My parents wouldn' t pay for mine either. I learned to type went and got a degree as a paralegal and make more money without any school loans now.

The money my parents gave my son for uni was especially touching in light of the choices they made when I was young.

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:38

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I think perhaps you are making a judgement based on one particularly contentious issue we've had with our son. I'm not sure how you see it is controlling to tell a kid to get a job. Isn't that not having control if they can rely on themselves? I want him to have the control. How can he have options with no money?

OP posts:
fluffycloudalert · 28/03/2024 17:38

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:19

We pay dental and we paid for him to have assessments and titrations done for adhd. We also have insurance through my husbands work and use that for physical therapies etc.

Yes, school is university. School is kindergarten, school is education. I leave it to the reader to figure out which one it is based on the fact that you need a loan and he's an adult. :-)

University is not called 'school' in the UK.

We don't use the term kindergarten in the UK either, we call it nursery or pre-school.

NotQuiteHere · 28/03/2024 17:39

I wonder if your son is bitterly disappointed with his parents.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/03/2024 17:41

fluffycloudalert · 28/03/2024 17:38

University is not called 'school' in the UK.

We don't use the term kindergarten in the UK either, we call it nursery or pre-school.

Op can call it that if she wants, it’s not the law that she has to use British English.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:42

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 17:33

This is honestly the crux of the problem isn't it.

100% which is why I said I'd actually be quite interested to see how it would turn out if he took us to court to try to compel us to pay him. The government expects but does not require, and of course it doesn't require because its quite ridiculous to do that when they are adults who may not even deserve your help for whatever reason. Each family is different. If the gvt wants to require parents to pay, make it the law unequivically, or give them the full living stipend. He has tried to argue this point with us, but the fact is we acknowledged the trickiness of this situation before he chose his school, and explained the financial possibilities living in both places. He knew after year 2 he would have to get a job and didn't do it. I think a lot of his feeling hard done by was due to this stupid wording though.

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:44

fluffycloudalert · 28/03/2024 17:38

University is not called 'school' in the UK.

We don't use the term kindergarten in the UK either, we call it nursery or pre-school.

Ah, straight to the important stuff I see.

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:45

NotQuiteHere · 28/03/2024 17:39

I wonder if your son is bitterly disappointed with his parents.

No need to wonder! I can assure you he is 100% bitterly disappointed in us, but he loves us anyway. As we do him. 😊

OP posts:
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