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Parents of adult children

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Bitterly disappointed

201 replies

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 13:52

tv show television GIF by Chrisley Knows Best

Our son is 23. Over 4 years he hasn't looked for work, he's worked about 4 months total over those years and was let go of both those jobs. When he would come to us for money, we would give him work to do in his craft, he could add these commissions to his profile, so it would benefit him. We didn't need it done, it was just a way for him to earn money and build his portfolio simultaneously while getting paid what he would make doing a job at a retail store. He resents that we don't just give him money, and calls us transactional. I received an email from his girlfriends mom admonishing me for not paying him industry standard and that a kid needs to eat. I assured her I could see his bank account and he was eating ubereats so he wasn't going hungry and that the work wasn't really even for us, and we simply pay him what he would make in retail, giving him the option to avoid working a "normal" job and allowing him to do what he loves. A few months later he asked for money again. We reminded him he never did the last project for us. He told us he never intended to do the job because we weren't paying him "industry standard". We noted he was not doing well in school, not working, not doing his channel and we weren't going to give him any more money because he makes no effort to help himself 3 years was enough time to have gotten this sorted. This went down like a lead balloon. Nevertheless, from our perspective, once he made the effort to support himself, we'd happily kick in whatever extra he needs for bills if he isn't spending it all irresponsibly.

18 months go by and he gets no job, doesn't build content for his channel and leaves school. He has not asked us for money. We are going insane. We can't understand why someone his age isn't eager to work. Especially given the golden goose of a channel he has on youtube.

Two weeks ago we find out that my son's girlfriend's parents have taken out a loan of several thousand pounds to pay for one of his expenses. They have also been paying his rent for over a year now as well as covering food costs etc. This is in addition to their daughters rent and costs (they share student housing, they each have their own bedroom in a 4 bedroom share). We are flipping out. First, the expense wasn't time critical. It is something we would have helped him negotiate terms for that would have been doable for him without anyone taking out a high interest loan. Second, who does this? Who are these people to come into our lives and undermine a very simple life lesson we are desperate for him to learn? Nobody will pay your way, you have to support yourself (or at least try!!!!). Now his experience is that people will, indeed, pay your way! I mean, I have never in my life met anyone who would do this. Why are they not bothered that at 23yo he's not making an effort for himself? Is it a matter of seeking to make him reliant on them so they can keep the kids close? They have been dating for 3 years. To make it worse, her parents can't afford it. I'm embarrassed that my son would take from her family before going out and doing work for himself. He knows that making that effort would be enough to rely on us to pitch in to help make ends meet for him. I feel like I'm in crazytown. In the email she sent me years ago about industry standard rates, she said she would do anything to make her kids life easier. I responded saying that I would offer my son opportunities, but he had to make the effort to take those opportunities. Sure, we could support him for the rest of his life, but surely that's not normal right?

After all this venting, in the end I realize there is nothing I can do. He has chosen to remove us from the financial aspect of his life, so we are respecting that decision and don't bring it up. We are trying to build an adult relationship in the space we're all comfortable in and we have plenty else to talk about and build on, but it breaks my heart that he's not eager to make a life for himself and that he's willing to have other people work hard to take care of him when he is capable of doing this for himself.

Anyone else bitterly disappointed in the decisions their adult children are making?

OP posts:
Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:41

BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 16:39

Really depends on the degree and university, plus ADHD may genuinely make that more difficult.

OP should absolutely have topped up his maintenance loan if the family income reduced how much he could borrow, though.

The type of degree was his choice. So he should've selected better, especially if he dropped out.
He was and is an adult. He needs to seek help himself and manage himself

Wonder how this drop out plans to repay the loan?

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 16:42

I think you were way too strict regarding trying to force him to go to Uni in Scotland (also they only provide a limited number of places to Scottish students as they get more money from English students attending, so competition is a little tough and a place not guaranteed) and the witholding of the parental contribution expected by the student loans company.

This makes me think you're generally hard work (meaning a difficult person) and pulled the rug out from under your son too early. Either way, it's backfired.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:43

Witsend101 · 28/03/2024 16:35

Honestly, I can see that you think the GFs parents are enabling him but I don't think I'd take a chance on what would happen if your DS is left to hit rock bottom in the circumstances you describe. What if you are wrong and the lack of money and job doesn't lead to a job and independence ?

I guess in that case he'll move in with his girlfriends parents or us, just like he'll probably have to do anyway since rents are so unaffordable now. I just know he's unhappy and feels like he's spinning his wheels.

OP posts:
SadMumSEN · 28/03/2024 16:45

Im another that 100% agrees with OP.
I can’t stand lazy, entitled adults. Grow up and pay your way.

Unfortunately OP you just need to accept that the lesson you were trying to teach him has been trashed. Step away, leave them to it. More Fool them.

jannier · 28/03/2024 16:45

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 14:58

Yes, he gets the partial payment for the living expenses. We were covering his food, but stopped after the ubereats fiasco. We still cover any medical costs and travel home.
He is literally doing nothing now he didn't finish the degree and has left the program as of Feb.

Aren't medical costs free ...is he very ill? I think you made it impossible to finish poor kid

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:46

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:43

I guess in that case he'll move in with his girlfriends parents or us, just like he'll probably have to do anyway since rents are so unaffordable now. I just know he's unhappy and feels like he's spinning his wheels.

Do not let him move in!

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 16:46

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:41

The type of degree was his choice. So he should've selected better, especially if he dropped out.
He was and is an adult. He needs to seek help himself and manage himself

Wonder how this drop out plans to repay the loan?

I think they mean that some subjects take up more hours than others.

I did a science degree with labs so I was actually in university from 9 am until 5pm EVERY weekday. Then there was additional study. I assure you the world of work was alot easier and I've always regreted not doing a low contact degree 🤣

jannier · 28/03/2024 16:47

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:07

We had to be a resident for one year.

This is all, however, in the weeds. The point of my post is that we worked to teach him the need to be self reliant and it got disrupted in a very unusual way. The only question I had was if other parents were disappointed in decisions their adult children make.

I guess lots are disappointed in the decisions their parents made too.

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:48

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 16:46

I think they mean that some subjects take up more hours than others.

I did a science degree with labs so I was actually in university from 9 am until 5pm EVERY weekday. Then there was additional study. I assure you the world of work was alot easier and I've always regreted not doing a low contact degree 🤣

I know exactly what they meant. That was the point of my reply.
He needed to chose a degree where he could complete it himself and support himself with the abundance of help he's been given.

If an adult chooses a degree where they need to support themselves and they can't work that's them making a problem.

usernother · 28/03/2024 16:49

You're right. He is an adult and a grown up. More fool his girlfriend's parents for bailing him out. He's choosing not to work. On his head be it.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:50

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 16:42

I think you were way too strict regarding trying to force him to go to Uni in Scotland (also they only provide a limited number of places to Scottish students as they get more money from English students attending, so competition is a little tough and a place not guaranteed) and the witholding of the parental contribution expected by the student loans company.

This makes me think you're generally hard work (meaning a difficult person) and pulled the rug out from under your son too early. Either way, it's backfired.

We are hard work. No doubt about that, but we're also a soft landing. He knows he'll never struggle like other people have to. Not sure I view it as "strict" to give him the opportunity and a real world incentive to move. Our living costs would be greatly reduced in Scotland. We live in the South East, and its much more expensive here, thus would have the money to help him had we moved house. It's all based in real world finances. Staying in the SE while he's in school down this way is more costly, and I don't want to move away until I know he's established. I'm getting the feeling that people think this has caused some breakdown in the relationship. It hasn't. We all get along fine. We just don't talk about money anymore. The only thing thats backfired is he has no motivation to create a life for himself while someone else is willing to pay for it.

OP posts:
jannier · 28/03/2024 16:51

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:47

This is a fascinating perspective since he flunked out, has no job and plays video games all day. If that's the image of success for you, perhaps I do have my standards set too high

Have you considered you played a big part in his flunking out?
Why try to impose US norms if you decided to move to the UK? After all we didn't vote in Trump....I know Boris was bad but most people accept that now.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:52

totallybonkerswarning · 28/03/2024 16:46

I think they mean that some subjects take up more hours than others.

I did a science degree with labs so I was actually in university from 9 am until 5pm EVERY weekday. Then there was additional study. I assure you the world of work was alot easier and I've always regreted not doing a low contact degree 🤣

spot on. Our friend's son did Maths. He could not have worked, the course was extremely demanding.

My son's coursework was doing what he literally does for fun every day, they just changed the assignments enough from his passion to make him completely disinterested in it.

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/03/2024 16:53

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:39

I agree. I think diagnosis is a tool you can use for understanding how to equip yourself for this world that beats differently than yours. There are times though, like his current stasis where he is so stuck in himself, that creating crisis can motivate an adhder for example, I worked in a job very successfully that had "drop dead dates" They were concrete, real deadlines that would lose clients millions of pounds to miss. Those deadlines created pillars in my mind that mad sense to me. Working without critical needs to attend to is nigh impossible for me. I think most work is bullshit unnecessary busy work, but having to feed yourself is pretty critical stuff, so my hope was that his working would help build pillars for him that he could create a schedule around and be motivated.

Seems to me like you have very successfully learned to manage your own adhd so you think the same techniques are going to work for him, but maybe they don’t, you’re different people.
It also seems like you have expected more of him than he can handle. With the result that he has crashed out and isn’t communicating with you because he knows he’s disappointed you.
It’s a miserable place for both of you to be in. My neurodivergent child is only 17 and has autism rather than adhd but one thing I have learned so far is that you can drive yourself mad trying to manage/manipulate their behaviour (‘if I stop doing this, he’ll be forced to step up!’) and it’s never going to work because their thresholds may not be the same as yours. The only way to preserve sanity and your relationship is to step back, don’t judge and prioritise communication, bearing in mind that all you can do, ultimately, is to support them to make good choices for themselves, you can’t make the choices for them.
I wish you both the best of luck in rebuilding your relationship x .

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:53

Stay tuned for my post about how disappointed I am in my parents. 😂

OP posts:
BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 16:54

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:48

I know exactly what they meant. That was the point of my reply.
He needed to chose a degree where he could complete it himself and support himself with the abundance of help he's been given.

If an adult chooses a degree where they need to support themselves and they can't work that's them making a problem.

But it’s not his fault if he can’t borrow the maximum loan and his parents won’t provide a top-up. If he could have borrowed the maximum, his YouTube income plus the £6k from his grandparents may well have been enough.

It’s a complete flaw in the student loan system.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:54

I didn't "impose norms" of the US. Could you clarify specifically what US norms I imposed on him?

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:55

jannier · 28/03/2024 16:51

Have you considered you played a big part in his flunking out?
Why try to impose US norms if you decided to move to the UK? After all we didn't vote in Trump....I know Boris was bad but most people accept that now.

I didn't "impose norms" of the US. Could you clarify specifically what US norms I imposed on him?

OP posts:
Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:58

BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 16:54

But it’s not his fault if he can’t borrow the maximum loan and his parents won’t provide a top-up. If he could have borrowed the maximum, his YouTube income plus the £6k from his grandparents may well have been enough.

It’s a complete flaw in the student loan system.

That's why students work.

Terrribletwos · 28/03/2024 16:59

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:50

Like I said, we don't discuss finances with him anymore. I'm merely stating it is disappointing that he wont work and takes money from her parents. As a parent, I'm disappointed he's doing that and I have a right to feel the way I do, I don't make it HIS problem. I keep it to myself, but it is disappointing to know he has so much potential and he's wasting it and I don't understand why he isn't wanting to.

Yes, I would find that disappointing too and extremely frustrating!

But there's not much you can do at the moment. I would think that they will get fed up with a freeloader eventually but then you're back where you started.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:01

BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 16:54

But it’s not his fault if he can’t borrow the maximum loan and his parents won’t provide a top-up. If he could have borrowed the maximum, his YouTube income plus the £6k from his grandparents may well have been enough.

It’s a complete flaw in the student loan system.

His job would only have to net him £300 per month, so at £10 an hour, 30 hours a month, or 7 hours per week, with his youtube and of course he didn't need to at all for the first year thanks to G'parents. That is likely the same amount of time he'd need to devote to his youtube channel to make an extra £300, though it would likely earn him vastly more than that, so he could do youtube, his own business, instead of working a normal job. Considering he plays 50 hours of video games a week, I'm pretty sure he'd manage the workload (and yes, we can see his video game time because we all game and our accounts are linked).

OP posts:
Terrribletwos · 28/03/2024 17:03

You need to take a serious step back from his life (I know, not easy!) and leave him be for now.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 17:08

LarchFairy · 28/03/2024 16:04

You had a child at university. You didn't want him to take the student loans he was entitled to but you also didn't want to support him?
Seems like he has done well to get someone else to support him and I rather suspect his story won't match yours.

I wanted him to go where the student loans would be less of a burden on him. I personally don't like being in debt, so wanted him to have the best start for himself. If we moved to scotland it would be cheaper for us to live there, thus more ability to help. Win/win. we have more money for helping, he has less loans in the end. It's not difficult.

OP posts:
BandyMcBandface · 28/03/2024 17:09

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 28/03/2024 16:58

That's why students work.

Yes. If their degree allows them to.

it is very unfair if parents don’t support them in term time if they have a high intensity course, or specific challenges, and it’s due to the parents’ finances that the student is disadvantaged loan-wise.

Mirabai · 28/03/2024 17:10

OP - he’s 23. If he chooses to lig off his gf’s parents instead of you that’s his adult life choice. More fool them if they choose to throw money they don’t have away on a ligger. Is it honourable? Nope. Is there anything you can do about it? Absolutely nothing.

I think you need to stop framing it as other people trying to interfere in the life lessons you’re trying to teach your son - and frame it as it is - your adult son making questionable life choices that you can’t do anything about.

If he chooses to drop out and play video games it’s up to him at this age. He will probably go on doing it until the money runs out.

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