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Parents of adult children

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Bitterly disappointed

201 replies

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 13:52

tv show television GIF by Chrisley Knows Best

Our son is 23. Over 4 years he hasn't looked for work, he's worked about 4 months total over those years and was let go of both those jobs. When he would come to us for money, we would give him work to do in his craft, he could add these commissions to his profile, so it would benefit him. We didn't need it done, it was just a way for him to earn money and build his portfolio simultaneously while getting paid what he would make doing a job at a retail store. He resents that we don't just give him money, and calls us transactional. I received an email from his girlfriends mom admonishing me for not paying him industry standard and that a kid needs to eat. I assured her I could see his bank account and he was eating ubereats so he wasn't going hungry and that the work wasn't really even for us, and we simply pay him what he would make in retail, giving him the option to avoid working a "normal" job and allowing him to do what he loves. A few months later he asked for money again. We reminded him he never did the last project for us. He told us he never intended to do the job because we weren't paying him "industry standard". We noted he was not doing well in school, not working, not doing his channel and we weren't going to give him any more money because he makes no effort to help himself 3 years was enough time to have gotten this sorted. This went down like a lead balloon. Nevertheless, from our perspective, once he made the effort to support himself, we'd happily kick in whatever extra he needs for bills if he isn't spending it all irresponsibly.

18 months go by and he gets no job, doesn't build content for his channel and leaves school. He has not asked us for money. We are going insane. We can't understand why someone his age isn't eager to work. Especially given the golden goose of a channel he has on youtube.

Two weeks ago we find out that my son's girlfriend's parents have taken out a loan of several thousand pounds to pay for one of his expenses. They have also been paying his rent for over a year now as well as covering food costs etc. This is in addition to their daughters rent and costs (they share student housing, they each have their own bedroom in a 4 bedroom share). We are flipping out. First, the expense wasn't time critical. It is something we would have helped him negotiate terms for that would have been doable for him without anyone taking out a high interest loan. Second, who does this? Who are these people to come into our lives and undermine a very simple life lesson we are desperate for him to learn? Nobody will pay your way, you have to support yourself (or at least try!!!!). Now his experience is that people will, indeed, pay your way! I mean, I have never in my life met anyone who would do this. Why are they not bothered that at 23yo he's not making an effort for himself? Is it a matter of seeking to make him reliant on them so they can keep the kids close? They have been dating for 3 years. To make it worse, her parents can't afford it. I'm embarrassed that my son would take from her family before going out and doing work for himself. He knows that making that effort would be enough to rely on us to pitch in to help make ends meet for him. I feel like I'm in crazytown. In the email she sent me years ago about industry standard rates, she said she would do anything to make her kids life easier. I responded saying that I would offer my son opportunities, but he had to make the effort to take those opportunities. Sure, we could support him for the rest of his life, but surely that's not normal right?

After all this venting, in the end I realize there is nothing I can do. He has chosen to remove us from the financial aspect of his life, so we are respecting that decision and don't bring it up. We are trying to build an adult relationship in the space we're all comfortable in and we have plenty else to talk about and build on, but it breaks my heart that he's not eager to make a life for himself and that he's willing to have other people work hard to take care of him when he is capable of doing this for himself.

Anyone else bitterly disappointed in the decisions their adult children are making?

OP posts:
Bigearringsbigsmile · 28/03/2024 15:37

You asked a question. I have answered it.
I think your position is damaging for your future relationship.

CliffsofMohair · 28/03/2024 15:38

Isn’t it difficult for Scottish residents to get places at preferred universities cos of the number reserved for rUK? So no guarantee he would have accessed his preferred course at a Scottish university.
your US frame of reference isn’t helping you here.
mad a 23 year old man, let him figure it out for himself. If his girlfriend’s parents are daft enough to go into debt for him, that’s on them.

ChristmasGutPunch · 28/03/2024 15:40

You need to have lived in Scotland for 3 years prior to the application date to be eligible for free tuition. There is also a serious limitation on availability for home students so he might not have got a place at all even after that.

ChristmasGutPunch · 28/03/2024 15:41

I think you are confusing the uni rules with the NHS rules.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:41

Okay, this is my post about my experience in my frame of reference. That's the point of sharing. I can't change my frame of reference any more than you can. If you don't understand something, feel free to ask, but I am not wrong to explain the issue from my perspective as someone from another country. First of all, I know exactly how the UK works. I have read and read and read all of the law regarding student loans. I understand how they deduct them from earnings when you meet a threshold. There is no way I can ignore the fact that once upon a time, the US had the SAME system. People went to Uni assuming they would be met with this payment requirment when they left, but instead they got retroactive changes that made all of the debt entirely payable no matter whether you worked or not. You can't even discharge it in a bankruptcy. Having seen people suicidal over the burden of costs that were retroactively sprung on them I can't help but be aware that this could be changed in the UK as well. The loan system is not long established, and the burden of the debts will be something the government will surely seek to unburden itself from. It's one thing when interest rates were low, but it changes when it gets more expensive. I wish I could have gone into it erasing the experiences of my peers and parents from my mind, but there is nothing that can guarantee they won't make changes that will significantly impact him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:43

Bigearringsbigsmile · 28/03/2024 15:37

You asked a question. I have answered it.
I think your position is damaging for your future relationship.

You're not very good at this game then. That's not the question I asked.

OP posts:
LadyDanburysHat · 28/03/2024 15:44

Your first post sounded like your son was a layabout who had no job and was not studying.

Your subsequent posts make it clear that you are controlling and unsupportive parents and your son is lucky that his girlfriends family are helping him out.

Yogatoga1 · 28/03/2024 15:45

The student loan system has been around since before I went to uni in the early 90’s. So at least 30 years.

in any case, it’s your son’s debt.

stop trying to manage his life and finances. He’s an adult, none of your business.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:46

ChristmasGutPunch · 28/03/2024 15:40

You need to have lived in Scotland for 3 years prior to the application date to be eligible for free tuition. There is also a serious limitation on availability for home students so he might not have got a place at all even after that.

A Scottish student is generally someone who has been ordinarily resident in the UK for the three years immediately before their course.

Moving to Scotland from England by selling a house and buying a house and moving is showing you are settled. I made calls about it to make sure. I also spoke with multiple schools about the programs and liklihood of space. Neither was an issue.

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:47

LadyDanburysHat · 28/03/2024 15:44

Your first post sounded like your son was a layabout who had no job and was not studying.

Your subsequent posts make it clear that you are controlling and unsupportive parents and your son is lucky that his girlfriends family are helping him out.

This is a fascinating perspective since he flunked out, has no job and plays video games all day. If that's the image of success for you, perhaps I do have my standards set too high

OP posts:
Bigearringsbigsmile · 28/03/2024 15:48

You asked if anyone else is bitterly disappointed in the decions their adult children are making. I have answered your question.
This isn't a game.

You want everyone to agree with you. I don't.

Couldntgiveafunk · 28/03/2024 15:50

OP is right about the fees:

To receive funding, you must meet all the following three conditions:

  1. UK national or have 'settled status', with no restrictions on how long you can stay.
  2. Normally live in Scotland on course start date, short periods away for work, education or holidays are OK.
  3. Living in the UK for 3 years before the course start date.

Taken from https://www.studentinformation.gov.scot/students/further-education/tuition-fees

But your son is a grown adult, and your experience in the American system which is massively financially and culturally different to the UK is not relevant here. The government could not retrospectively change the terms of the loan, legally.

You can be disappointed in him, but his antagonism towards you and his transactional attitude is purely a reflection of how you have behaved towards him.

Student Information Scotland - Funding, Finance and Student Life

https://www.studentinformation.gov.scot/students/further-education/tuition-fees

LadyDanburysHat · 28/03/2024 15:50

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:47

This is a fascinating perspective since he flunked out, has no job and plays video games all day. If that's the image of success for you, perhaps I do have my standards set too high

Perhpas he has done that due to the lack of support over the last 5 years from his parents. Who did not support his uni choice, did not help with associated costs etc.

MollyRover · 28/03/2024 15:50

YANBU OP. I think you've really tried to teach fiscal responsibility, I don't know what his gfs parents are playing at. I'd be disappointed but I'd be worried too.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:50

Yogatoga1 · 28/03/2024 15:45

The student loan system has been around since before I went to uni in the early 90’s. So at least 30 years.

in any case, it’s your son’s debt.

stop trying to manage his life and finances. He’s an adult, none of your business.

Like I said, we don't discuss finances with him anymore. I'm merely stating it is disappointing that he wont work and takes money from her parents. As a parent, I'm disappointed he's doing that and I have a right to feel the way I do, I don't make it HIS problem. I keep it to myself, but it is disappointing to know he has so much potential and he's wasting it and I don't understand why he isn't wanting to.

OP posts:
ceneta · 28/03/2024 15:50

Yogatoga1 · 28/03/2024 15:45

The student loan system has been around since before I went to uni in the early 90’s. So at least 30 years.

in any case, it’s your son’s debt.

stop trying to manage his life and finances. He’s an adult, none of your business.

I completely understand your disappointment but I agree with this. He's an adult. You won't always agree with his choices. That's how life is.

Whatkindofworld · 28/03/2024 15:51

His girlfriends family must think very highly of your son to take over your parental responsibilities.

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:59

LadyDanburysHat · 28/03/2024 15:50

Perhpas he has done that due to the lack of support over the last 5 years from his parents. Who did not support his uni choice, did not help with associated costs etc.

Well, I assure you, we did support his choice and were very happy for him. He started with his loans plus £6k so plenty of time to find a job he would be happy in. While I appreciate your opinion based on assumptions, I have no doubt that my son is supported and has stability available to him far beyond that of most students. When supporting your child is leading to negative outcomes, not supporting them should lead to that wake up call to take responsiblity for themselves. An impossibility when someone else jumps in to save them. We're not asking him to go to a workhouse, just have a part time job lol

OP posts:
paparazzied · 28/03/2024 16:01

Yes, that I do agree with and I appreciate that they do think so much of him. It makes me happy to know that they see how special he is. I'm just afraid they are getting in the way of his growth. I'm afraid that he's come so far and still isn't working. It's unimaginable to me to think of being his age and not having a job to build your life around.

OP posts:
YourNimblePeachTraybake · 28/03/2024 16:01

paparazzied · 28/03/2024 15:50

Like I said, we don't discuss finances with him anymore. I'm merely stating it is disappointing that he wont work and takes money from her parents. As a parent, I'm disappointed he's doing that and I have a right to feel the way I do, I don't make it HIS problem. I keep it to myself, but it is disappointing to know he has so much potential and he's wasting it and I don't understand why he isn't wanting to.

Yes, you have a right to your feelings. But have you made any attempt to understand his point of view? Or to understand ADHD?
If, as you day, you want a more positive relationship, you need to learn to look at things from your child's point of view, rather than the position that your values of hard work and "fiscal responsibility" are the only ones that matter. I would try to look for other positive qualities in your son: is he generous of spirit? Creative? An animal lover? If you focus on such, maybe it will lessen your bitter disappointment in him. Of which he will, very definitely, be aware.

LarchFairy · 28/03/2024 16:04

You had a child at university. You didn't want him to take the student loans he was entitled to but you also didn't want to support him?
Seems like he has done well to get someone else to support him and I rather suspect his story won't match yours.

AyeupDuck · 28/03/2024 16:05

So he plays video games and uploads them to YouTube. He makes about £50 per week according to your post. That is not a very successful YouTuber, well it’s not sustainable to live on. It’s a very nice extra income doing something you love. Plus the lifespan of YouTubers and twitch streamers is limited unless they have something very special. They lose their dexterity and twitch reflexes as they age, it’s why all those Fortnite world champions that win thousands of dollars were kids, most of them were under 16.

The way you write is a bit confusing and I can see why you got peoples backs up. But my take is the girlfriend’s parents are supporting him trying to make a living through gaming and he has dropped out of University possibly in his final year. I am not anti gaming at all, I have gamed for 40 years on and off. He is however deluded and I would be annoyed.

Legacy · 28/03/2024 16:08

OK, here's my take on the situation from what you've told us. And for background I have two sons about the same age, one who has dyslexia and probably ADHD (that bit undiagnosed, but very obvious now I know more about it).
(Dyslexic/ ADHD son also had a very profitable YouTube channel FWIW!)

Your posts suggest that you really don't understand your son's ADHD and how it may be root cause of everything you're getting frustrated about - planning, executive function, holding down a job. DH and I believe that our DS is probably about 3-5 years 'behind' his peers in terms of a lot of 'adulting' type things - taking responsibility for bills, filling in forms etc - it's taken a lot of coaching and repetition!
Is his girlfriend also ADHD? I bet she is. If so, her parents recognise your son's challenges and feel for him, especially since your lack of understanding seems to result in a 'my way, or no way' approach.

I feel sorry for your son. What does he say when you talk to him about the need to develop his own life and take responsibility? Could he actually be hiding his fear and panic because he knows he ought to be doing it, but doesn't know how to?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/03/2024 16:09

You seem to be ignoring the ADHD bit.

Executive function
Overwhelm
Procrastination
Inability to finish.

Have you not linked his behaviours to his condition?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/03/2024 16:10

You said your son has ADHD but you don’t mention that at all when talking about your expectations of him. I wonder how much his struggles to complete a degree and get himself to work are affected by his neurodivergence and whether he really needs support in finding workarounds for the reality of his condition.

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