Adult son is a serial cheat

[whattodoforthebest2]

My son is 28, he has a good job and his own flat. We have a good relationship, except for the fact that he habitually cheats on every girlfriend he has ever had. His dad and I separated when he was 15, he has a good relationship with his father but his dad and I are no contact. My son has had a succession of 2-4 year long relationships, always with lovely girlfriends, not only stunning looking but polite, respectful, friendly and trusting girls.

He is due to go on holiday with his gf of 2 years on Saturday. This evening he has asked to stay at mine as he was seeing some mates locally. At 3am I'm woken by him coming upstairs and I go and find my living room and kitchen full of boys drinking. My son isn't there. So I find him in his room in bed with a girl having sex.

This isn't the first time I'm aware that he's cheated on this gf, but she's a lovely girl and I can't stand by and watch this happen.

So what do I do now? My instinct is to contact her via fb and ask her to call me and tell her, either on the phone or in person.

Why on Earth are you meddling in your adult son's relationships???

Mind your own business.

Are you the son InFiveMins? Are you condining his behaviour?

He is a lying, cheating arsehole, and the (ex) girlfriend sounds lovely, and deserves someone better.

I have talked to my DS on numerous occasions about his behaviour, throughout his teens and since then too. He looks up to his father (who himself demonstrates many of the traits mentioned above) and his father has not hesitated to discuss the breakdown of our relationship with all our children. I've just realised (only yesterday) that my DD was told a version of events that's a long way from the truth. I hadn't wanted to burden them with the details, so have never discussed it with them, obviously my ex had no qualms about doing so. As a result, my eldest son has always suggested that I was in the wrong and has maintained that I should do certain things and behave in a way that his dad has told him. That was always very difficult to live with, day in and day out. It's led to massive disagreements and has made my life very stressful indeed over a long period of time. I have always tried to keep some sort of balance, have tried to never talk badly about my ex to my children, and he has always held himself and his wife beyond reproach and has refused to communicate with me reasonably. My daughter has forged a very close relationship with her step-mother as a result (she has even described them as best friends) and this has been extremely painful for me, but not something I can discuss at all.

Someone above questioned whether my other children don't appear to have demonstrated these behaviours. No, they haven't, but they've undoubtedly suffered from the issues that have been brought in by my ex's and son's behaviour. However, I think it is the complete lack of communication that has affected them most deeply - it is not the way that mature, responsible parents should behave. I've done everything in my power to keep the lines of communication open, but my ex comes from a family of sulkers and people who will ostracise their siblings for life at the drop of a hat. I've witnessed it on several occasions and the family is completely divided now, with no hope of reconciliation.

The irony is that the one thing I insisted on when we split up was that was should always unite for anything relating to the children, whether it was schooling, uni, whatever. And that was the first thing to disappear. He refused to attend my daughter's parents evenings at high school and didn't attend DS1's graduation either. I doubt if he knows the name of DS2's uni now or where DD lived last year when she started uni. And yet he plays the happy family card every now and then and gives extravagant gifts when the mood takes him.

This has turned into a rant about my ex, which it shouldn't be, but so many issues I'm facing are the result of things being badly managed since my divorce, so they all tie up.

That must have been such a hard phone call to have. But great that you’re showing your other DC and the girlfriend that there are honest people around. The divorce sounds really tricky. Re, the untruths your XH has told, I wonder if you could offer your DC the opportunity to ask you any questions they have. I may be way off the mark with that though.

The way we react to things usually lead us back to a certain moment in our lives and yours seem to be your split. You still sound pretty heartbroken to be honest. It sounds like the break up was a massive shock to you. Maybe you need counselling about the split before you approach your son - I mean that kindly.

How did the version of events differ between what your ex said happened with your break up and what actually happened? I’m interested to know how the lies stack up - are they similar lies you see your son telling women? If your husband was/is a serial cheat like your son then his new wife will eventually get a taste of her own medicine (if she hasn’t already)

Also - people are stubborn arseholes and your ex sounds like he is right up there - but is it worth holding out an olive branch to him for the sake of your son?

ThickFast, that's a good idea, I'll think about doing that.

Newbie, yes it was a complete shock, we'd just moved to our dream house and children had moved schools, all of that was stressful and then he announced he wanted to leave. Anyway, I've tried to make the peace before on many occasions - once ringing him to tell him our DD was in hospital in the Far East, she'd been away travelling. He got his wife to liaise with me after that first phone call. Now the DC are older, there's less cause to communicate and I don't think my ex or my son could have any easy conversation about infidelity. I just don't think it would happen.

Dream home doesn’t mean much if you want out I suppose. It’s only a dream home if it’s with a person you want to be with and that dream home could be made of straw!

If you’ve tried before to smooth it over then sod him. You are doing the best you can by focusing on what’s best for your kids. Your son needs you to be mum AND dad by the sound of it so it’s tough love from here on in.

It sounds very difficult you have my every sympathy.

i would probably tell your dc your version/point of view to the extent you haven't already, they are old enough and the different perspectives will help them with their own relationships. This isn't about taking sides or trying to turn them against anyone - it is good to support their love for their father and they can love you and your ex both equally even where you get things wrong, do things wrong and they can form their own, third, point of view about it all. I think it is important for them to know what your experiences and perspectives were as it will give balance, that there is more than one way to see things. It would make it easier for them to approach you with questions too.

With your eldest as well as encouraging him to get professional help, if you take each problem individually and google to find out more about why people do it - eg lying, why people lie - you will find lots of helpful info - there will be lots of possible reasons and it might give insights to help you know what to say to him what kind of help might work and the consequences for him if they carry on as he is- or you could print off the articles for him to read. I would bet most of his friends and male colleagues are the same, though I might be wrong, and if so that sort of makes it harder to get him to see it is not ok. I remember talking to male friends - they knew it wasn't ok and laughed ruefully at the telling off - I reckon with each they weren't fantastically happy and it was to do with avoiding intimacy, but who knows.

I’m sure you can find way to put it to them. So they know they can talk to you about it if they want to, but not if they don’t. And in a way that doesn’t descend into slagging their dad off. It’s great you’ve not done that so far. I’m sure they appreciate that.

OP I'm sure you know that lying, cheating, stealing, being controlling, and thinking yourself superior to others is part of a specific set of behaviours. And hopefully you also realise that these things can be genetic. So you can essentially play very little part in his someone turns out if they have a certain set of genes.

Many people refuse to understand that and prefer to think it's all upbringing. But they would be wrong. I've seen it myself several times. I think you are doing fantastically well and you did the right thing with the gf.

As for what the children think about the end of your marriage - it's time you sat them ALL down and calmly explained what actually happened. You are protecting the wrong person. You are their Mum and they need to see you as stable, trustworthy and strong. Your ex telling lies is actually damaging your children and you not wanting to upset them is making it worse.

As for your son saying he would take the children if he ever split with someone. Well I think we both know how arrogant and abusive that is. He needs help - but he may not want or accept it. This group of people are generally very difficult if not impossible to help as therapy simply gives them more weapons for their arsenal. They just manipulate the therapist and use what they learn to manipulate others. He may be a lost cause, unfortunately.

@Defenbaker I agree with you. This set of behaviours and traits is pretty specific. Not all psychopaths are Hannibal lecter snd it IS heritable.

I know two people who inherited NPD from their fathers. For one when I heard that's what a psychiatrist said about her father something just clicked and I looked up whether it was genetic. It was. Then I realised all those weird little fucked up things werent my imagination.

If someone with ASPD grows up in a fantastic family they could well be ok. A bit lacking in empathy. Feel a little empty. But strong boundaries and they learn to behave in a socially acceptable way and not rely on their own (lack of) moral compass. It's rare though as usually there's a parent with it and of course that's a different upbringing.

Everyone wants to pretend it doesn't work like that. But it does sadly.

So you can essentially play very little part in his someone turns out if they have a certain set of genes. Many people refuse to understand that and prefer to think it's all upbringing. But they would be wrong.

Research, psychiatrists, psychologists do not agree with you.

Some do some don't. The debate between nature and nurture has rumbled on for years snd is very very contentious. No one wants to make those judgements about a person and doom them to a life of being 'labelled'. But the reality is the reality. Unsavoury though it is.

"Some do some don't" is completely different from your last post and contradicts the end of your post. What you are saying is hogwash, it is far more complicated, both problems and outcomes depend on many factors. i really would leave both the diagnosing and the therapeutic recommendations and the prognosis to the professionals. There is a lot that can be done to help both children and adults.

Sorry I didn't read what your post referred to, when you said "some do some don't" I thought you were referring to some people being helped and some not (which would be true and would contradict what you said) and realise now that you were referring to what I wrote.

No, it isn't right that some would some wouldn't agree with you. Each situation should be assessed individually. If an adult does not believe that they are doing anything wrong, and refuses to engage in therapy, then obviously it would be hard to help them at that time, and I think that that might be what you are thinking of.

sorry, just to clarify last 2 posts were @Vodkacranberryplease

@didyouchoosetogoabroad If an adult does not believe that they are doing anything wrong, and refuses to engage in therapy, then obviously it would be hard to help them at that time, and I think that that might be what you are thinking of.

Well, obviously. Because actually That has happened. He thinks he's doing nothing wrong and isn't going anywhere near a therapist. And if you knew anything you would know that getting certain PDs into therapy is a bad idea as they use it to become even more manipulative.

If the OPs wonderful upbringing was going to have a positive effect we would know by now. She has two other children with very sound moral compasses. She has tried her best and it's not working. So you actually think therapy can fix this? Really?

PDs absolutely can be and are heritable. The end. Yes a great upbringing can make all the difference but that would probably involve TWO parents constantly parenting. There's only so much one parent can do when some of his time is sent with the PD parent who he also sees as having more power and money.

Sometimes it's ok. Sometimes it isn't. Not everything can have changed by fucking therapy.

An interesting debate and the idea that he would manipulate the therapist certainly rings true. My ex had the audacity to comment to the judge in our 2nd divorce hearing that he must be having a good day as he's starting it with two good-looking people in front of him. My chin hit the floor. The idea that he could say something so arrogant, joking, disrespectful and glib at such a critical time was beyond comprehension. I was a nervous wreck and he seemed to be taking it so lightly. Mind you, he'd have done better to read the consent order properly so that he wasn't blindsided by the financial terms he agreed to.

Sadly I hear this morning that DS and gf are on holiday.

The fact your son is now on holiday with the girl he cheats on continuously and you have out right told is a massive worry. I’m concerned about what lies he has told her to convince her to still go away. Is he the type to paint you as a liar telling his girlfriend you simply have it in for him?
I tend to agree that his ego wouldn’t allow him therapy and that him telling you that he’d go is just another lie and manipulation strategy. Where on earth does he think all this behaviour is leading?

Reading between the lines I’d say you came out of that divorce with a hefty settlement that you ex now deems unfair? Could it be that has also contributed to the fact he doesn’t want to have anything to do with you and the children have also made their own opinion of that? You mentioned your house was very large that people could get lost finding the toilet. Divorce settlements and who gets what will always impact the older children. They will work out in their mind what is fair etc. If you seem to be living a good life whilst their father is still working for example that isn’t going to sit well with them.

He may well have told the gf that I have it in for him, but I've known her for 2 years now and I think my/his/her actions speak for themselves. She has chosen to believe whatever he has told her. I'm not sure I can maintain any sort of contact under these circumstances. I doubt if he will want to anyway.

Yes, my ex may well begrudge the settlement we agreed, but he had extensive and costly legal advice and earns an eye-watering salary now, so he isn't suffering financially in the slightest.

@newbie222 yeah I wouldn't get too upset on behalf of the ex. Psychopaths tend not to end up on the losing end of transactions and if they do it's entirely of their own making. Implying that the woman who put up with his shit is to blame for her sons behaviour is a pretty shit move. I don't think I've ever said this on here before - but just fuck off. Seriously.

OP this is awful. With the best will in the world he is what he is and it won't change. I think you know that you have to detach with love and to keep yourself and your other children away from his toxicity. It must be so hard as a mum but I suspect you already know that he is beyond redemption.

Who knows in later years he may realise and work on this? Or more likely, not. As for the gf - you did the right thing. You can lead a horse to water and she has to make her own mistakes ,

Also that conversation with your other two children is long overdue. They deserve to know the truth. It's not fair for them to have half the information and although you think you are doing the right thing what's happening is they are having trouble squaring the two things - what they see, and what they have been told. Once they know what happened they can put the pieces together and will be less confused.

@Vodkacranberryplease errr hold on! I didn’t say it was all her fault at all. There are numerous contributing factors to a child’s mental health and you implying it’s all the fathers fault is equally pathetic especially as by the sounds of things he has very little input anyway. The OP also stated it was a huge shock when they split which also implies that she thought all was rosy in the garden up until that point which makes me wonder how similar he really is to their son. Sounds like the marriage was happy until that point which wouldn’t have been the case if he was anything like their son. I’m trying to get some balance as to what her children view from the divorce. The OP saying her ex is on an ‘eye watering salary’ - how does she know his finances now??

OP your son does sound toxic but you know that in your heart already. The problem is that after a few weeks he will creep back into your life, tugging on your heart strings and so the cycle will begin again. This will be repeated over and over no doubt. He knows exactly what buttons to push.

My daughter has been told the truth. She's asked questions about the financial arrangements, realised her dad had lied to her about it and expressed surprise that he was bothered about it. She now also knows what happened when we split up.

I've mentioned up thread that noone stands up to my ex, he's in a very senior position in his company and prides himself on the way he bullies people into submission. I think I'm probably the only person that his tactics haven't worked with so I imagine that must bug him.

Does it sound awful to say that my life will be so much simpler now without my DS causing aggravation right, left and centre? He's always come to me for financial help when he's overspent (which is very often) and until Thursday we seemed to be OK, although he had just borrowed more money. At least I won't fall for that any more.