How to Talk so Kids Will Listen.../Unconditional Parenting/TCS thread

[flamingobingo]

Not sure if this will work! But come here and post if you want some helpful creative thinking from other parents also striving to talk in a way that will make their kids listen, parent unconditionally or to take their children seriously (more links)

No judgey-pants allowed, and only 'I want to find out more' questions, please - no debates

Firstly - please, someone, please, tell me how to get my 4yo to stop spitting! She's got into a real habit. It's not proper spitting, but raspberry blowing, but she's got into this horrid habit where she just does it so frequently.

It's driving me mad, and I am getting to the point where I am thinking the only solution is to threaten her with something - can't think what though, and don't want to do that anyway .

Please help!

oh God the rasberry blowing is a classic

Ignore (albeit with a withering look, but quickly look away and don't speak) - it's a new trick they've learned, it provokes a reaction from you - ergo they do it more, and louder!!

Probably not helpful, but we have a rule (house rule applying to all as mentioned elsewhere!!!) that no-one can make noises that annoy other people in our main living area. This rule, for example, means that I can't listen to Radio 4 because it is very crackly, and the noise annoys everyone else.

So if dd is making annoying noises, we ask her to go and do it in her room with the door shut. Generally this seems to work as a compromise solution for us. Actually, it doesn't help that much immediately because her room leads off the main room with a very thin wall, but generally she gets bored of being noisy on her own quite soon . . .

btw have to go and work now, but I would love to join in this thread more later on

Flamingo, we have a no raspberries at the table and no raspberries in other people's faces rule.

The childen came up with these boundaries after I talked to them about germs.

Also, in general if someone is making a noise that is annoying other people we say go and make that noise in your room.

Eg DS is blowing raspberries or waving his light saber over our heads when I am trying to read DD a story in the living room.

(But if they are both happily making annoying noises in the living room, I usually just leave them to it)

The light saber makes a noise BTW.

yes, we do that too. Unfortunately she doesn't do them like that - she does them in response to things her sisters say or do.

And I don't know what to do, because once she's done it, she's done it IYSWIM. It's a real habit - how on earth do you break habits without swift punishments?

I mean, I think I could stop her doing it if I smacked her hand immediately after she did it each time, but that's not really ok for me to do...so what else?

am lol at Radio bore Four being banned in Takver's life

Raspberries.

Well, either we help 4yo to find an activity which is just as satisfying but less irritating

or we find a way of making raspberries less annoying.

or we try to work out whether it's actually about the raspberries or whether you are coming over all mama tiger at the threat to your other cubs.

Tell me which if any of these you want to explore more since I am nakking and don't want to give myself rsi

Ommmward - it's the unhygeinic-ness of it that bothers me. She does it like a typical kind of 'I won't give you your spoon back so . Truly lovely!

I don't have a problem with tongue being stuck out - well it's not nice, but I guess she'll grow out of it - but it's all that lovely coldy spit being distributed around I don't like!

Would some kind of collaborative problem solving approach work . . .

• I am worried about germs, and unhappy that either your sisters or I will get sick
• you feel the need to express how you feel about what your sisters are doing to you

what can we come up between us (perhaps including sisters?) as to ways of expressing disgust without breaking house hygene rules that apply to everyone . . .

is there a solution that we are all happy with?

FWIW I don't have a particular problem with arbitrary house rules that apply to everyone equally . . . I am fully aware that our house rule of no reading at table (which long predates dd), for example, has any necessity behind it, other than the fact that it is a nice thing to sit and eat together.

I like that idea, Takver, and feel it will carry more weight than me reacting in the moment by getting cross with her. I'll have a go at talking to her when she's in a good mood and then maybe she and I can come up with a word - maybe 'germs', rather than something negative like the usual 'no spitting' - that I can say quickly to remind her of our chat when she does it.

I'll let you know how I get on

Right...who's next?

(don't tell me I'm the only one with a problem!)

I like the mamatiger thing.

I am feeling like that right now.

Lovely day at the beach with friend and her DS.
3 children being silly on the way home in the back seat. Pretending to fall asleep and laying on one another.
DD in the middle, occasionally getting upset when the boys went a bit too far. DS reminded several times to stop when his sister said stop.
Suddenly DD bursts into tears. DS had hit her in the eye.
I am furious. Other mum asked if I wanted her to stop driving so I could confort DD. Was too worried about what I would do to DS so said not. I told him I wasn't saying anything to him because I was worried about what I would say. He is now playing Lego while I have been giving DD lots of tlc.

It's horrible, isn't it, otherside.

I remember when I was expecting my DD2, my mum said to me 'don't be worried if you find that sometimes you adore one and can't stand the other, and at other times it's the other way round - completely normal'.

But I remember the hugely conflicting feelings I had the first time one of the people I love more than anyone else in the world hurt the other person I love more than anyone else in the world.

I've always found the Faber/Mazlish book Siblings Without Rivalry really helpful, but it doesn't stop you wanting to go mental at the protagonist for hurting one of your babies, and then feeling hugely guilty for feeling so hateful towards another one of your babies!

If I've done lots of rewards/punishments with my DS (3.10), then do you think he would cope if I changed to an UP style? We use collaborative problem solving and distraction etc. aswell, but I think I do rely on rewards and punishments a lot, and I think they don't entirely suit him, plus I think it'll stop working soon.

So could I change (and how?! - I have the books, just no time to read them!), or will he be ruined by what I've done!

yes, change, but don't expect to notice a difference overnight!

And best way is to read the books - sorry

The How To Talk ones are very easy to read, and won't take you long at all.

Oh, I've calmed down now. I don't ever feel hate but I do feel anger, of course.

Normally I would have separated them before but in the car it wasn't possible. Neither of them big enough to go in front seat.

He only hurts her when he is over-excited. But I wonder how many times I have to repeat it before he learns to control himself.

It's time like these that I doubt words are enough.

Having the benefit of hind sight and critical distance [smug] I have a solution to the car journey one.

Stop the car.

Swop the car seats and children around in the back so it goes Ds, Ds's friend in the middle, Dd. If necessary, put Dd behind you so you can use your arm as a protective barrier.

And of course you should have had a portable DVD player with you so you could play a movie which would entrance the boys.

Other people's problems are often relatively easy to solve. You should see the mess I make of my own life ;)

Thanks.

We were on the motorway for most of the way so impossible to stop. The hitting incident happened just after we came off the motorway, 5 mins from home.

Next time the friend will definitely go in the middle.

Usually they are exhausted and go into a daze or doze on the way home from the beach. Next time I will definitely take some entertainment just in case.

But what do you do after a 6 yr old has hit? Have you experienced this oh wise one?

Did he hit her on purpose, or was it accidental because he didn't stop messing around?

otherside What I would do is the following (although Ommmward the guru may have a better idea!):

If it was on purpose - tell them that hitting is not acceptable and that you are feeling very angry and DD is feeling very upset.

If it was by mistake - what is there to say? Maybe say that you're upset because you warned them that someone might get hurt and that DD was getting upset and now it's her who is hurt. Remind him that DD is hurt and that it would be nice to say sorry when he's ready to.

With my dd, if it was accidental, she would almost certainly be feeling very guilty and embarrassed, and maybe discussing why it happened and how things could have been different might be helpful.

If intentional, I guess discussing why he was cross with his sister, what the alternatives to hitting would be . . . I would imagine that by the age of 6 he knows perfectly well that hurting people is wrong, and just failed to come up with a better alternative . . .

Ok, I've started the book, and am now feeling incredibly guilty about everytime I've ignored tantrums over the last 18 mths. I have a temper too and do too much shouting . I had a quick question - are logical consequences part of this approach? It feels like punishment, but I've always kept punishments very related to the problem - so if a toy is thrown then it is taken away for a short while to stop the throwing (usually he has a warning/second chance in case he 'forgot' the throwing rule). Obviously these consequences come after trying explaining why throwing is a problem, and requests to stop. I know its still about control...

I'm pretty sure it was on purpose, because she was the one complaining when the boys got boisterous. Plus he usually is distraught and says 'sorry it was an accident' when it is.

I always say something along the lines of 'hitting is not acceptable and that you are feeling very angry and DD is feeling very upset.'

I just feel doubtful right now that this is enough to get the message through.

The idea is that you don't punish at all, even if you change the name to sound less of a big deal

Of course, consquences of some things would happen, so if you say to your DC, if you go out with only knickers on, you may well get cold...and then they do get cold, then they've learnt something. But, as it's not meant to be a punishment, I would take something with me for them so that when they did get cold, you could help them get warm.