How to Talk so Kids Will Listen.../Unconditional Parenting/TCS thread

[flamingobingo]

Not sure if this will work! But come here and post if you want some helpful creative thinking from other parents also striving to talk in a way that will make their kids listen, parent unconditionally or to take their children seriously (more links)

No judgey-pants allowed, and only 'I want to find out more' questions, please - no debates

Firstly - please, someone, please, tell me how to get my 4yo to stop spitting! She's got into a real habit. It's not proper spitting, but raspberry blowing, but she's got into this horrid habit where she just does it so frequently.

It's driving me mad, and I am getting to the point where I am thinking the only solution is to threaten her with something - can't think what though, and don't want to do that anyway .

Please help!

No-one cleans in my house unless they want to. It is a standing joke that I don't know where the hoover is kept. I do no cleaning at all. It's always done by the time I start to think things are getting manky. So... my Oh always has to do it.

But left to him, the laundry would be overflowing before any got done (with cloth nappies too... ewww...). He hardly does any laundry. I do that.

Completely consentual. And very pragmatic - we each do the bits we care about and no-one gets frustrated because someone else doesn't do X fast enough or well enough.

Here's a great discussion about chores: here Really some wonderful ideas I think!

I think chores thing is very tricky.

I have always felt very strongly that I didn't want my kids to grow up thinking that cleaning was something parents did, especially not something mothers did.

However am pleased to report have never insisted on chores and kids do spontaneously do quite a lot of housework.

I think there is a grey area where problems can occur over housework that is probably for everyone's benefit. Eg I am more than happy for their room to be a tip (this is good as floor was last seen in there about 2 years ago). I am not happy for, say, food to be left lying around in the kitchen (we have fieldmice in the garden!) or for the family tools to be left out where babies can get at them, etc etc. So for these things we have rules. No serious problems with rules not being followed thus far.

filly they sound less like 'rules' and more like common sense - I think children are far more likely to help you clear up food when there is an obvious, genuine reason for it, like getting mice, or getting ill from the food going off. Same with the tools - no one wants someone to get hurt, and especially not someone you love.

yes I like "common sense" better than rules

actually they are flexible too. If someone has a better suggestion we do go with that.

But I don't mind family rules that have been negotiated fairly. Its the top down stuff that I like less. Though we have some of that. But I'd rather we didn't really.

yes, I agree. I got so irritated by the older two children banging their chairs against the wall at supper, and sitting with their knees on the table in a sort of squat, that I said to them 'look, I find it really, really unpleasant eating together when you do that, and I'm not enjoying mealtimes. How would you two feel about having a rule that we sit on our bottoms, and don't rock the chairs during mealtimes?' and they both said 'yes' very readily and remind eachother about the 'rules' when one forgets now .

I think the good thing for them was that it wasn't me saying 'don't do it, and that's that', it was me saying 'do you mind not doing it because I really don't like it - they were free to disagree and suggest something else for discussion if they wanted to.

cummli, also, personally, dp and I (and tbh the kids) clean stuff we don't care that much about because other family members get upset if things are a tip, if they can't find things etc.

I think I'd be very upset if I thought others were making a lot of mess in a communal space and then relying on me to clean it. I certainly saw this happening in communal living spaces I shared when I was younger, mainly where there was little in the way of ties between the inhabitants, or where people had Ishoos to work out, often through the not washing of teacups.

However a family normally does have these ties, and so it matters to the members of a family if someone is feeling unhappy or put upon.

I believe it is ok to be honest, though not manipulatively so, with kids. If I was feeling deeply resentful and annoyed about something I would actually tell them. However I think they are sufficiently self respectful and secure that they would not be taking my annoyance as the word of god, it would be just another thing to weigh up when deciding whether or not to take their shoes off at the door after making a muddy stream in the garden

it is interesting re the "do you mind not doing that" thing

am rereading how to talk so kids will listen.

It makes, i think, a very interesting point about being authentic. That is what I have been lacking of late, I think. I have tended to be nice and polite and calm and then "oh fgs grrrrrrr".

I am thinking I need to be more "you know, I don't like that.". Less patient and more honest.

just marking this thread as I want to read it properly when I get the chance!

What I found amazing, was that all the things I learnt about when I was training in how to use counselling skills (not to become an actual counsellor), were all the same things I was reading about at the time in the Faber & Mazlish books. Congruence (or genuineness) is one of the 'core conditions' - one must be 'real'.

I also am aware that DH and I have far worse rows when we're not genuine with eachother from the start - so if he does something that irritates me, and I don't tell him, it escalates until I end up having a horrible go at him. But if I say when I first notice it, then we can talk it through calmly and it doesn't become a real issue.

I find it really difficult to apply the same to my children though, and I find myself saying nicely 'please don't do that' repeatedly, and then suddenly going mental and screaming 'you are really, really annoying me!' .

I really need to be being more honest with them from the start - about why I want them to stop doing whatever it is. When I do remember, I try to say things like 'I'm finding that really annoying, I'm afraid - would you be able to do it somewhere else while you're doing it?' (usually referring to some awful noise or something - DD2 likes to roar, for some reason!).

I haven't had the chance to read this thread - will do when I get more time. But I do like the theory of these parenting styles but really struggle to put it into practice.

How would you all deal with a 2.10 year old who refuses to clean his teeth - am fed up of having to battle every evening!!

hello ceebee

We're all struggling to put it into practice, which is why I started this thread

What happens with the teeth cleaning?

You may find some ideas here.

Personally, my children have all responded to the following things at different times:

• getting an extra toothbrush that they can hold onto
• letting them clean their teeth and me just check it and then say 'ooh, you've missed a bit, I'll just do it for you'
• getting a favourite cuddly toy or puppet to ask them to clean their teeth
• explaining about bad teeth and how painful they can be
• showing them pictures of bad teeth on the internet
• their Grandma talking to them about all her fillings and problems with having to have adult teeth removed
• having the Lola doll that you can get ready for bed, and which has a toothbrush and toothpaste in her rucksack

Also, doing it while they watch tv has been well recieved on occasion.

Ceebee - have you tried your dc with a battery operated toothbrush? One of mine who wouldn't brush turned around completely using one.

We have tried loads - some with limited success but it soon wears off.

Have tried:

• reading a book whilst doing it
• singing whilst doing it
• pinning him down and doing it (not proud of this one!)
• reward chart (yes I know this goes against the principles of unconditional parenting)
• doing it in the bath where he is more relaxed

As I say, they all work for a while and then it seems to go back to square one.

It doesn't help at the moment that he is going through a 'no' and very uncooperative phase at the mo!! It is a struggle to get him dressed/undressed each day - never mind clean his teeth!!!

He does like using our battery-operated toothbrush but, again, only every now and again when he is in the mood. I did see a Thomas one a couple of years ago (he is seriously Thomas-obsessed) but nowhere seems to sell it anymore.

Am hoping that when DS2 gets his first tooth (anyday now) and we start brushing his teeth, it might make him more co-oeprative - he always wants whatever DS2 has

Musical toothbrush?

Battery operated one?

Thomas toothbrush and stand
This is a bit cheaper than the others.

Juuule thanks for the links - am very now as it looks like I was too lazy to look As it is, I hate ebay - can't really explain why - so always ignore any ebay links that come up on Google.

We have the toothbrush and stand - not worked!

Now I need to put my ebay prejudice aside and go and order both one of those other ones - but they are expensive!! (But I guess worth it if DS1 cleans his teeth )

Why not clean DS2's gums? Why wait for a tooth?

Hi Ceebee, one thing that works for us with tooth-brushing is that I let DD (2.8 so not far off your son's age) do her teeth herself first. The deal is that if she brushes her teeth well enough (all over the front AND sides and back) then she doesn't have to have me helping her. If she doesn't do it well enough then I have to do it all again for her. She was pretty resistant to doing it at all a while back but the deal (which I also like to think of as common sense rather than a rule) seems to have helped a lot as it's within her grasp to stop me brushing her teeth for her, should she wish to.

Also, have you thought about another flavour of toothpaste? Some kids really hate minty things.

Finding this all utterly fascinating. I've thought for a while that the standard parenting style is just not working for ds1 (5.4). I've got 'How to talk' but only managed about 1/3 so far. If I have the time, I will do it the 'right way' and try to really pay attention to what he's wanting/feeling/saying etc and treat him with respect.

But unfortunately with 3 other dc's under 5 (ds2 2.4 & dt's 8 mo) things just get hectic and I need him to just do as I ask NOW. Like get dressed for school, put on his coat, brush his teeth. I hate hate hate school mornings at the moment because they nearly always end with me yelling at him because he just won't do things and I have to leave in minutes. Any suggestions as to how I could tackle this subject with him, I just want to cry when he goes into school and all I've done all morning is chivvy him along. We had 'getting dressed quickly' and 'doing as I am asked' on his reward chart but didn't work and now it seems reward charts not great - why is that? Haven't got to that bit in the book yet although I can vaguely see why they're not a great idea.

Aargh, school mornings. I find it hard enough with 2!

Will he let you do those things for him? Would it be quicker if you did? Just because he can get ready by himself, it doesn't mean he should always.

Accessorize is there anything you can miss out to make the mornings smoother - like brush his teeth when he gets home from school and before bed (they only say do it twice a day - they don't say when!)? Or read here for some alternatives to tooth brushing.

How about getting dressed in the car when you get to school? Keep a spare set of uniform in the car and chuck it on him the minute you get to school?

Breakfast in the car? Mine sometimes eat a banana and some bread in the car on the way somewhere if we're leaving earlier in the morning than they can be ready for.

Reward charts are not good in general but I think for something unavoidable then they may probably save your sanity.

Personally I think that your situation is avoidable though...it's when I read threads like yours that I am so pleased we home educate! .

That may, or may not, be something you could consider? If not, then I think if it were me I would resort to the reward chart, unless all the other wise women on this thread come up with some corkers of ideas .

I have 4 very young DCs too, and, yes, TCS is very challenging with so many, but it's not impossible, and I feel that I'm giving them a lot of good experience at common-preference seeking - they are wonderfully creative at times!

He's 5 so you could try 'problem solving' with him.
At that age DS came up with an idea that is still working 90% of the time.
The times it doesn't work is when he is really tired, when I've been dragging him out of bed for school.

tooth brushing. Daft question but is it utterly non-negotiable?

My kids don't always brush their teeth, tbh, it is a bit hit and miss. No way on earth would they go for any clever tricks to get me to do it either. They just don't like others brushing their teeth and they won't always do it.

Solution round here: teeth brushing doesn't have to happen every night. It gets skipped if things are going pear shaped. No cavities as yet! They are reminded that it is teeth brushing time each night and morning and I'd say they brush teeth about once a day on average.

Caveat: I think we can get away with this because they basically have no sweets, pretty much no sugar, little refined food, etc. I have the kind of teeth that see sugar and rot, so I am very aware of stuff like not sipping apple juice between meals. And again, of course, it is how these things are explained, the fact of the matter is that (given the rubbish teeth in my family) they cannot get away with sugary fizzy drinks between meals and no teeth brushing without the result being painful teeth.