How to Talk so Kids Will Listen.../Unconditional Parenting/TCS thread

[flamingobingo]

Not sure if this will work! But come here and post if you want some helpful creative thinking from other parents also striving to talk in a way that will make their kids listen, parent unconditionally or to take their children seriously (more links)

No judgey-pants allowed, and only 'I want to find out more' questions, please - no debates

Firstly - please, someone, please, tell me how to get my 4yo to stop spitting! She's got into a real habit. It's not proper spitting, but raspberry blowing, but she's got into this horrid habit where she just does it so frequently.

It's driving me mad, and I am getting to the point where I am thinking the only solution is to threaten her with something - can't think what though, and don't want to do that anyway .

Please help!

I would say that you could assume that something you can't see is frustrating him. Not much you can do about that apart from wait for the tantrum to calm down and just be there to support him and help him. Ask what it was about when he's calmed down. If he says he doesn't know leave it at that. These things either pass with time or the child gets older and can communicate better what is bothering them.

Otherside in your situation I would carry on doing what you are doing. When you have had enough of the kissing etc let him know and back away to show that you have had enough. I think it's a good opportunity to teach him that if he is ever uncomfortable with something then he has a right to say no and expect the person to stop what they are doing.

Thanks Juule.

That's a good point about what I am teaching him.

It's annoying that he sees the backing off as time to grab at me. He seems to think it's hilarious and gets all wound up (after listening intently and calmly to his story) but I guess there's not a lot I can do to change that.

I am wondering about having a chat tomorrow to see if we can agree on a max number of kisses but it feels a bit weird to introduce a 'no more than N kisses at bedtime' rule!

Great thread. Thanks for starting.

Have skimmed ... nose picking tip, which may be of use: DS (nearly five) used to do this willy nilly, which I consider bad manners. I explained what a bogey is made of, and that it isn't nice to see these emerging from someone else's nose - but I also said I understood that some (hard) bogeys have to be extracted with a finger (nice!). I have asked if he can go to the bathroom if he needs to do this, and to wash his hands afterwards. This seems to work. HTH.

In principle, I believe in the UP approach, and am wading through the How To Talk book (I'd love a talking book - a CD - of this). In practice, I find it bloody hard, TBH. I am a lone parent, DS has experienced an unsettling few years, and we both have quick tempers.

This evening, I asked him to help load the dishwasher at my mum's after she'd cooked a roast; a gesture to do his bit. Despite having cleared up with his dad over the weekend - toys, dishes, etc - he flipped at me. He spat at me, told me he hated me, didn't want to be loved, and lunged for me twice. I was horrified, and it took a lot of effort for me to not explode (which does happen sometimes). I explained that what he said and did was hurtful - did the how-would-you-feel line, etc. He said he would punch me in the face whenever I asked him to do something he didn't want to do, and that Dad is nicer than me because I'm crosser.

Please don't think I'm raising an awful child, because a lot - most - of the time, he's lovely company. But these outbursts, I find nigh on impossible to handle. He seemed to just need some time to vent, TBH - a bit like filly saying sometimes kids need to tantrum, let rip. Time out was useless (we don't use this lots, but it was my way of saying no way can you behave like this - stop!), reasoning didn't get me far. Time worked - just letting it pass. He apologised on the way home and was affectionate at bedtime. He had less story time as a natural consequence of the song-and-dance at Mum's, and I read him Mama, Do You Love Me? to instil that there's nothing he can do to stop me loving him - in case he was testing me. But I'm shell-shocked TBH!

Sorry for hijacking thread, though hope this is still relevant.

I'd love UP tips for enforcing (doesn't sound very UP ...) no physical hurting and no hurtful words rules. IMO, they need to be non-negotiable, but in our home - due to our family set-up, recent life events, personalities or a combination of all of these - they get broken more than I'd like.

He's only 2 so he wouldn't be able to answer me if i asked him that. Juuule in situations where you can't see what the tantrum is about do you just ignore and wait for it to pass?

Scrumplet "Time worked - just letting it pass" I've found that a lot of times this is exactly the right thing to do. Scrumplet you sound as though you are doing all the right things. Believe me by the time they reach their teens you benefit by having practiced giving them time to get over things.

Nappyaddict I've found there's not a lot else you can do to diffuse a situation than wait it out. Then when it's passed you can decide whether it's better to talk about it or just let it go depending on what has occurred.

How To Talk on CD - for those of us who don't have enough time to get through the book(s), forget it all too quickly, or it just doesn't sink in at all via a book. Abridged version. One hour long. It will be with me by Tuesday.

juuule, thanks for your support. I must remember that - time. Time. Time. I don't think I allow DS enough time for his feelings to pass - so end up reasoning with an irate four-year-old, which is a recipe for disaster. I'm liking the, "Wow - you're cross!" line and the importance of giving feelings time. Then discuss, if it's even necessary. And I need to sort my temper out so that I can calmly escort throwing/kicking/hurtful DS to his room, away from his friend, to calm down, rather than end up dragging carrying him with gritted teeth. Anger definitely seems to breed anger, at least for us.

scrumplet maybe take your ds friend out of the room until your ds calms down. No 'dragging' necessary.

for juule's solution, I'd say it will only work if there is absolutely no risk that the friend will feel it's him that's being punished;

if the friend is playing with something/doesn't want to leave the room, then it's unfair to make him do it because scrumplet's ds is throwing a wobbly;

(have some experience of being the quiet biddable child whose convenience is disrupted because nobody wants to confront the more difficult child)

I agree that the friend shouldn't see it as him/her being punished and should be left to carry on playing if they are enjoying something.

Sometimes the friend might want to get out of the way though, if my child started to tantrum. Of course, if you remove the friend then it's possible your child might run after you even more enraged.

It depends on how you see the situation at the time. Probably best to remove your child.

Can I join in? Last night when ds (3.5) refused to get into bed for an hour I found myself contemplating rewards and stickers. I do find bedtime a real difficulty at the moment - he just gets out and tears around, culminating in hitting hysterically. I put him back into bed over and over again but I get very angry. The later he goes to bed the earlier he wakes up and then we have a hideous behaviour day. He is not a willing or a good sleeper and is always on the edge of over tiredness; I guess the least coercive route would be to let him stay up as long as he wants, but that feels wrong to me, it would have such bad effects on all of us. Anyone else got any ideas?

Can someone tell me the best way to deal with my 13 month old dd snatching things from other children please?

And cleaning teeth - any age. If they don't want their teeth cleaned, surely the natural consequence - bad teeth - is something you'd rather avoid?

great thread, by the way. I have learnt a lot.

goingnowherefast i would just remove the snatched toy from DD and give it back to the other child, whilst explaining to DD that we don't take other people's toys or if it is somewhere like toddler group then explain that we wait until the other person has finished with it and then we can have our turn and then distract her with another toy. Obviously at 13 months she's not going to understand this explanation but as she gets a little bit older she will start to.

cleaning teeth is a non-negotiable for me, along with suncream when really necessary - they are too young to understand consequences so if they can't/won't do it themselves, I do it. But always a choice about doing it oneself. Usually there is some reason that can be negotiated with, or some offer to make it more appealing - funky toothbrush, coloured sun stuff, etc.

Cheers. Oh I can see we've got lots of fun to come!

ooh, is it too late to join this thread?

am reading HTT atm but not sure how to apply it to ds, 2.1. 3 main issues atm

1. jumping on bed when 7week dd is there
2. over-enthusiastic kissing/hugging/prodding of dd (usually when she's just gone to sleep - grrrr)
3. climbing

quick tips/suggestions please?

1. jumping on bed when 7week dd is there

Put 7week old somewhere safer than the bed.

2. over-enthusiastic kissing/hugging/prodding of dd (usually when she's just gone to sleep - grrrr)

Any chance you could put your baby somewhere out of harm's way to sleep? Gently restrain your older dd if she goes to kiss/hug/prod and supervise her doing it at an appropriate time. Teach her the correct way so that she doesn't hurt the baby.

3. climbing Let her climb but keep an eye on her so that she doesn't hurt herself.

it's not when she's sleeping - it's when I'm trying to change the baby's nappy/clothes. there isn't really anywhere else for me to do it. have put ds outside the room with stairgate

2. I guess what bothers me is that even trying to teach him the correct, gentle way, fact is he's still just an over-enthusiastic, excited, and not very coordinated or controlled 2yo. And quite singleminded, impervious to distraction a la, "why don't you drive your tractor over here?" So I end up constantly either physically restraining him or saying, "don't...", and I hate hearing myself!

I just wanted to know if how I am handling DS' violent phase is in line with the UP approach.

What I am doing is staying close by him and watching him like a hawk. If I see him reach out to another child then i restrain his hands so he can't and distract him with a toy and go to another part of the room saying we are going over here now so that you can't hurt X. If he goes to hurt me again I restrain his hands and I say to him mummy is moving over there now so you can't hurt me.

Also if we are at home is taking him to another room to calm down inline with UP or not?

I think another way of responding to the violence would be to think about the impulse - why is it happening? - and give him another physical outlet, or another way of expressing his frustration - whatever it is he needs. A good beanbag throwing session and a 'cross cushion' to hit can be helpful.

cockles This is the hard one. He does it for 3 different reasons.

1. He does it because he likes the feeling himself. He is trying to be nice. He can be hugging one minute and pinching the next. He often sits on the sofa pinching his own arm and laughing

2. He does it when he's excited. He also sort of twitches uncontrollably.

3. He does it if someone tries to take something from him or if they touch him.

Phdlife, I used to put baby DD to sleep in a room with a lock on the door and turn the key!
The key stayed in the lock as DS couldn't turn it but it stopped him from disturbing her nap.