Gave biting boy marmite "medicine"

[Flamesparrow]

I'm not going to traumatise him for life am I?

He hated it before, just seemed a good way to make him connect that doing bad stuff with his mouth makes bad things happen to his mouth.

Many tears and apologies!

i once knew a child covered in marmite and rolled down a hill made of breadcrumbs(with a dash of paprika and thyme)

this hill is in the deepest depths of devon. it is said on a clear night you can here him cry "MARMIIIIIIIITE....I love ittttt"

truly sends shivers down ones soul

but it's entirely different if the child likes marmite... that's rather the point

oh yes i was fully aware the child didn't like marmite. and i fully understood the point.

ps, there really isn't a hill of breadcrumbs in devon

I haven't read the whole thread, I have read parts and I have no issue with the marmite. It's not cruel, it worked, job done.

What does interest me is that when I read the title, I expected loads of people saying how it was a bad/awful/horrid thing to do etc etc.

It didn't happen, at least initially.
Is this because the OP is known and trusted so no one assumes a horrible punishment, ot is this just because the OP is known?

Sorry you are getting such a flaming, Flame - mean fair enough that people differ in opinions, but you are certainly not abusive, and I don't think your DS will be traumatised.

Have you read this book? I found it helpful with spirited DD. Some good sugestions, and lots of solidarity from someone who 'gets it'.

(mugglewump, I expect you are onto something. If "Joeandsarahsmummy7" had posted the same, I think the flaming would have come much more quickly! - lucky people like you Flamesparrow!)

I find all the talk of flaming really annoying. How is it flaming to give an opinion that differs from the op? I am certainly not a perfect parent and have resorted to things that I'm not proud of- tis part of the ups and downs of life. I'm certainly not saying that Flame is a horrible unloving parent (apart from anything else I don't know her). But she asked for her opinion on this punishment and I like others gave my opinion that like smacking (also a short sharp shock)I don't think it's a good way to deal with the problem. Yes it may work but that doesn't mean it's the best way. Flame did not have to ask for opinions but she did and she got them. The fact that many posters find this a disturbing punishment could at least be thought about rather than laughed at and called flaming.

"chilling" Snort! Dear god get some perspective.

Putting a foodstuff in a child's mouth is a long long way from using something toxic like soap, rotten egg or (FFS) engine oil.

Aged 2, DD sat on the "naughty step" for a full half hour, glaring at me when she would not apologise to her brother for hurting him. she understood how to say sorry so don't try to make out that she was too little to understand. She was offered the chance to make amends regularly with calm talking and explaining why hurting people was wrong.

I thought I was a fab parent when I had DS1. I learnt my lesson with DS2 but we got through it. Then I had DD... Even though I have no idea how to tame her it has taught me not to judge other people so harshly.

I don't agree with biting back but the marmite I wouldn't have a problem with (and I hate marmite).

totally agree with greensleeves.

it is not flaming. if you come on a thread and say you did a nasty thing to a 3 year old, no matter how spirited, not everyone's going to give you a thumbs up...

***

I think this is horrendous I'm afraid

You sat him on your lap, calmly put something you knew he would hate into his mouth and threatened him with more of it if he tried to get rid of it? IMO this sort of 'discipline' damages a child's trust and can set up serious issues around food/control/his right to sovereignty as a human being over what he does and doesn't put into his body. Imagine something you detest - rotten egg, for example, or engine oil, being put into your mouth against your will (and yes I know you don't bite people, but you're not three)

And as for the argument that "marmite is a foodstuff, so it's different from soap" - the point of the soap wasn't toxicity, it was the fact that it tastes revolting. If you have an aversion as strong as the one marmite tends to arouse, it's not a foodstuff to you, it's something disgusting that you wouldn't ever willingsly have in your mouth.

And the "you don't know what it's like to have a child so "spirited" that only weird nasty physical punishments work" angle - what rot. I have a very challenging child with ASD who turns my hair whiter every day. It's very hard work and I'm not perfect. But I don't use physical punishments or do thngs to him that discust and sicken him, because I think it's WRONG to do so. If you can't control your child without resorting to this stuff, that's YOUR failure. Don't blame your child's personality for that.

Sorry, but I think this is chilling.

*

and it is opinions such as these, that state that is is chilling to discipline your child like this as she knows what it is like due to yada yada yada that we have so many ferral kids on the street.

sometimes parents need to do what is best for their own child, ignore others, and actually discipline so that a child leanrs that biting is worng and has consequences. saying "oh no, please don;t do that, it is wrong" really doesn;t get thru occasionally.

some of you lot really have lost all perspective to go at flame like this, as tho she is an horrendous mum and terribly abusive.

what would you rather she do??? hit him round the head and call him a fucking twat??

no,of course you wouldn;t. but some parents are driven to that, and believe me, I bet agood dose of marmite would have been a preferable chastisement!!!

I would never had imagined people would think this is so bad. I wish I was this creative. Ít means you don't have to bite back to get a result!

Also, where do you draw the line on what's considered abusive? For example, my friend's 3 year old ds has been spitting on the baby's head a lot recently. Lots of talking and time outs etc but he was still doing it all the time. Last time he did it she poured a cup of juice over his head to let him know how it feels. Is that just as bad then?

custy has given me the grandest of ideas on punishment.

inflict showaddywaddy on him each time, will soon stop him

oh no, she actually said that I was a worse mum for inflicting it on my children.....

but psychomum, flame ASKED for an opinion. She didn't say 'I have forced my son to eat marmite as a punishment, I feel that this was the right way to go and my right as a parent, and it has solved the problem.' She was not simply ignoring what others say and doing the best for her own child as you say, otherwise she wouldn't have felt compelled to post.

therefore, why shouldn't people say they find it chilling as a thing to do to a child? It IS a horrible thing to do. I'm not saying flame is an abusive mother, and she is looking for answers to her DS biting problem. I'm just saying it's not a nice thing to do and I'm sure it's possible to find an alternative. My DH read the thread last night and was horrified, and he is very disciplinarian (as am I). Why is it worse for people to voice their disapproval of a mother's actions when she's asked them to comment than it is for a mother to judge her own child's actions as being worthy of having a disgusting substance shoved into his mouth?

It's ridiculous to say that the lack of physical punishment is what causes feral kids, and in the same breath say 'well at least she's not hitting him and he should count himself lucky because some parents do hit'.

Ra29 offered some actual suggestions that didn't involve physical punishment, and there might be other people with spirited kids who have other alternative suggestions that might help the OP.

KTNoo, I really hope you're joking about spitting on a baby and pouring juice on his head....

sorry, I read it wrong, still think it's wrong to deliberately pour juice over a 3 year old's head..

Now hold on a minute. This really was NOT a flaming. There were lots of people saying 'well done flame' - and, in part, the people in disagreement were responding to those posts.

Implying that those who disagree are 'smug cows' or 'judgypants' (ffs) just shuts down debate - for which there is clearly a need as so many of us disagree strongly with each other on this issue.

Flame is very well-liked, but popular posters are not ring-fenced, and when they write about doing something which others (and she herself) find questionable, they may be challenged.

As someone else has said, either Flame's ds is like other very-very-hard-work toddlers (in which case we're entitled to comment on the details which she makes public) or he isn't (in which case it is reasonable and supportive to suggest she seek help, which suggestion was shot down).

If you put it to the outside world or to professionals, you would probably find just as sharp disagreement as was found on this thread. There is no personal motivation to the criticism.

I think it is the one's who are crying 'judgypants; who are looking to wind this one up.

I think someone made the excellent point that in life, if you do something wrong there are consequences. At 3 years old I am sure it's as good a time as any to start learning that. Also, despite all these years of love and trust and being a balanced adult etc, if I bit my 23 year old sister now, I would still expect her to punch me back. I am sure she wouldn't tell me it was the wrong thing to do and ask me to say sorry. Maybe my parents just weren't AP enough, eh?

To those who say it breaks a child's trust, how do you think it makes Flame's DD feel to be bitten daily and see the parent in charge doing nothing (effective)? Surely that would have a damaging effect on trust too?

I have no experience to offer because mine's not biting yet, but I don't doubt it will be a bridge we may have to cross at some point (we've already had the joys of whacking other kids at toddler group ). I think even those who have had kids who bite need to remember that they haven't had this kid who bites. In the same way that I wouldn't expect a mum of another wakeful child to be able to instantly solve my child's waking - the reasons behind and best way to deal with something vary enormously between kids.

I do think it was pretty harsh (by MN standards) but I can totally identify why someone might get to a stage where they feel they have few options but to go a step further. Especially when we are talking about danger to the child or others around it.

I have also just had a thought - where you fall on this one is going to have an awful lot to do with your feelings on Marmite

I will say one thing about this thread...........

it really is proof on how much marmite is hated, if some people are willing to say that a slap is a better punishment!!!

Not joking gemzooks, my friend poured juice on her ds as she had tried lots of other things to try to stop him constantly spitting on his baby brother's head.

I think it has stopped him. No doubt he would have stopped in time anyway but she wanted to nip it in the bud.

Wow, I saw the first few posts of this yesterday, had no idea it was going to turn out like this.

I thought it sounded like a clever idea (and I don't like marmite), but what do I know?

Can I ask a question about the naughty step? How do you make them stay there? I've never really understood why a child who was playing up would agree to sit down in a specified place and be quiet. I assume you are against physicaly restraining them there, so how does it work?

Well, I hope it works, not to prove anything but just because I hope he does stop biting

Modern parenting is so hard.

For tens of thousands of years the main parenting tool was smacking. You could even argue that we as a species adjusted to this being the norm, that it was built into our psychology to cope with it from a young age. But at least the little blighters could run outside and play all day without our supervision, giving both parents and child a break from each other.

Now we as a society don't let our DC loose anywhere, and feel we have to control their every behaviour. Meanwhile, anything that hints even slightly of physical coercion is frowned upon by casual observers.

So what is it when my toddler has a tantrum and gets forced into a pushchair against his will -- how can you not label that unkind physical coercion, too?

I am not a smacker or (likely to be) a marmite force-feeder, but get a grip some of you. You may not like it, but there's a massive gap between what Flame did and anything that any of us should actually be concerned about in another person's parenting.

Trillian re naughty step.

I have never held mine down there. It is stage one. If they don't stay put, they do to their rooms for twice the time they would have stayed on the step. If they don't stay put in their rooms, I remove toys until they do. They always stay put now.