Gave biting boy marmite "medicine"

[Flamesparrow]

I'm not going to traumatise him for life am I?

He hated it before, just seemed a good way to make him connect that doing bad stuff with his mouth makes bad things happen to his mouth.

Many tears and apologies!

I think BabyDragon could kick his arse He tends to only attack family (is that better or worse?) Or kids who attack him first repeatedly at playgroups (in which case he hits rather than bites them)

but aitch, maybe they too have spirited children, and so know exactly where flame is coming from

I needed glee at the beginning of the thread to distract from failed as parent emotions.

I do now have the latter in abundance

I suspect she would have him tamed in under 5 minutes. Tamed and half way to a team plan to escape the box and take over the world. He would be the footsoldier at the front whist she is the general in charge. [sigh]

Her talents lie in manipulation and sheer bloodymindedness.

Add Giraffelet to the mix. She'll tame them both.

if babydragon is bigger than him, she could try lifting him up when is full 'kick-mode'.

he almost kicked MY arse in that one the other day (well, my boobs seeing as that was where he was aiming.......)

He would make a good foot soldier.

I can assure you I'm not reveling.

I feel very sorry for flame, I've been in similar positions and it's v hard. But I don;t think it's right to applaud her and I don't think that makes me "judgypants' - which is a particularly judgypants unhelpful thing to call someone. We disagree on an important matter involving the care of children - that neither makes you a shit parent nor me a reveller in other people's misery.

Sorry but saying I think it's no better than smacking hardly makes me 'judgypants'!

Flame, I think it sounds really really tough.I obviously don't know all the history which I imagine is what has made everyone so defensive about you. But, I honestly don't think it's the answer. Sometimes behaviours do take a while to ride out. The fact that saying 'no that hurts' hasn't stopped him biting doesn't mean that over time it won't sink in. He's letting you know how angry/desperate he feels and I just think that however awful you have to ride it out. Keep a close eye on him, be very firm about it when he does it and let him know that you know he is cross but it isn't ok to bite. Saying this may not mean that he stops straight away but really I think it's a better message to internalise than stop because if you don't something horrible will happen to you. I'm really not trying to judge you but I do think putting something in his mouth as a punishment is really not a good idea. If it really persists and you feel it's too much then I think you should see your GP to see about a referral to sombody who can help. I do understand that you're also juggling your dds needs and that you don't want to allow him to bite her.

I really don;t think any of you are actually getting this, and getting what he is like.

and I also don;t think any of you have ever had a spirited child such as him.

referring him............FFS he is 3, and just being a highly spirited 3.

flame did a short-sharp-shock tactic, one which many if us mums find very useful without causing long term trauma to our children, but actually help them turn into decent kids.

one such short-sharp-shock tactics I used to very great effect with mine was when they went for a plug or hiot flame (or anything hot in fact), was to slap their hands away. and it took maybe once or twice for them to get the message that what they were going for had a consequence, and one that was not harmful (in the way that a burn/electric shock would be).

telling them 'no' in those instances dont; work.

flame is finding the same with biting, only instead of in causeing longterm injury to flamedude, it could to flamechick!!!

you come live in flame shoes, then give suggestions.

I think she really would be willing!!!

psychomum I really don't get your take. Are you daying he is somehow completely different to all other children?

saying not daying!

It's still unreasonable to write off all those who don't - in similar circumstances - teach by physical chastisement as 'judgeypants'. That's just stupid. Flame herself said that she didn't feel that she'd responded brilliantly.

We will have to agree to disagree, though it's been pointed out many times that the more info you put in an op - rather than leaving it till the end of a long thread - the more likely you are to get posts which respond to the details of your circumstances.

of course I am not.

but equally, I am not sure that unless you have had a truely spirited child you can really sit and state that telling them no is all it takes.

I once was a smug cow about parents of boys (and I do mean very smug about all parents of boys). I truely thought that they had no idea how to raise their sons with proper discipline.

at that point, I had three girls, who did not fight, bite, push, whack, kick, pinch, spit...........they really were very sweet and loving.

I then got my first son.

and took it all back!

you cannot fight against a child like that. you just try methods that you are comfortable with, and when they don;t work, try new ones.

marmite really is not a harsh punishment!

oh, and me writing off some as being judgypants is not nearly as bad as them writing of flame as being vile....

but you are assuming I (and others) come from a 'smug cow' perspective rather than that we think it's bloody hard (I also had a fighting boy) and that it's not flame's fault or becauseshe's not being strict enough but that sometimes these things really take time for children to learn or work through.

he's 3, he's a baby, he's sad because you're sad, he doesn't need the person he loves best forcing spoonfuls of disgustingness into his mouth as a punishment. But if that's a way to truly get your undivided, albeit negative, attention, well, I predict he'll carry on chomping as it'll be worth it. Say no firmly, then ignore or time out is slower but it's the way to go, imo.

psycho- "pretty vile thing to do" is not writing off flame as vile, btw. We all do vile things now and then, no? Doeasn't make us vile people.

but right now, flame needed the short-sharp-shock tactic so that she can get back to the working it thru with him

and maybe I am thinking that you are all coming from the perspective that I was once in.......but I am also thinking that maybe, just maybe, you really cannot judge it unless you live it.

the same with anything really.

tis like me telling you what a polo tastes like..............you will still never get it or understand until you taste it yourself! (ok, crap analogy(sp?), but tis late and I am tired and I am trying to stick up for my friend).

ach, I think she was just after some sympathy and "there there, you will not have traumatised him for life" comments, not being likened to being abusic and the marmite being comapared to some acid thingy (not sure what no and can;t be arsed to scroll).

I think vast numbers of us have lived biting toddlers, psycho. Anyway, will up shut now, Night all and hope tomorrow is a better day.

yup, need bed too myself

night all

I think this is horrendous I'm afraid

You sat him on your lap, calmly put something you knew he would hate into his mouth and threatened him with more of it if he tried to get rid of it? IMO this sort of 'discipline' damages a child's trust and can set up serious issues around food/control/his right to sovereignty as a human being over what he does and doesn't put into his body. Imagine something you detest - rotten egg, for example, or engine oil, being put into your mouth against your will (and yes I know you don't bite people, but you're not three)

And as for the argument that "marmite is a foodstuff, so it's different from soap" - the point of the soap wasn't toxicity, it was the fact that it tastes revolting. If you have an aversion as strong as the one marmite tends to arouse, it's not a foodstuff to you, it's something disgusting that you wouldn't ever willingsly have in your mouth.

And the "you don't know what it's like to have a child so "spirited" that only weird nasty physical punishments work" angle - what rot. I have a very challenging child with ASD who turns my hair whiter every day. It's very hard work and I'm not perfect. But I don't use physical punishments or do thngs to him that discust and sicken him, because I think it's WRONG to do so. If you can't control your child without resorting to this stuff, that's YOUR failure. Don't blame your child's personality for that.

Sorry, but I think this is chilling.

i remember my son crying for the pepper pot, screaming in a tantrum beyond all belief - he was 3.

so i gave it to him, he licked it.

i never had kids that bit others - this is becuase i am a highly excellent parent ofcourse.

i really don't think marmite is a biggy at all. i maintain my 'stroke of genius there flamey' stance.

becuase when all is said and done - if you do something wrong - there are consequences.

and as long as there is oodles of love the rest of the time - all is good and the child won't be traumatised in th slightest.

marmite...chilling

geez louise lemon cheese

...where...where...where is it....its gone..lost.... the..the...sense of all proportion.

poor flamey, i've not seen a torch lighting like this for ages.

Chilling? Good lord.
Nothing wrong with a short sharp shock. I don't know anyone who has been 'damaged' by this kind of punishment used rarely as a last resort.
I know plenty of people who are damaged by being spoilt and not taught discipline.