DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

The eye roll is because her “parenting difficulties” an anger only seem to exist when it’s her 13 year old causing the problems, not her younger, more vulnerable child, around whom she magically seems to contain herself.

This. Great suggestion. I just hope OP is still reading because some of the comments are hard to look at.

Sorry see you quoted the wrong post 😆 I thought the BPD was in reference to wanting the iPhone and wearing make up etc,

Well the vast majority of teenage girls must have it then.

Maybe so, but OP knew she was struggling with her older daughter (she says this has gone on her entire life) and still went on to have another child, pushing her eldest out even more.

Lots of things in life are difficult but the fact that her reaction now is still anger when her DD has told her she’s suicidal is terrifying, quite honestly.

That’s a start, but you need to work on connection and that starts with empathy. If you’re able to empathise with your child it dissolves the anger because you’re seeing things as she does and you’re understanding her feelings. So look for connection - with my DD I really get why school is hard for her, and I hated school so can tap into that “got no choice” feeling. You know what it’s like to have an idea of something you really want, and to not get it, so tap into that feeling of disappointment for her. You know what it’s like to have a poor relationship with your mum, so tap into that feeling for her - what did you need and can you give her that?

Find things you enjoy with her - little daily things that tell her she’s wanted, and watch her while she’s sleeping, it’s easy to forget how vulnerable they still are as teenagers.

Whether it's a "reason" or an "excuse" doesn't matter. It doesn't matter why someone treats their child badly. The reality is that they have. Yes, OP needs support. But she is the adult and therefore the responsible one here.

And a child that has been showed little love through their life is a target for any person that comes along and shows them some affection. May not be a groomer, but certainly they are more likely to end up with an abusive partner.

You need to do better with your oldest DD.

She had a meltdown/tantrum and you're trying to use this one off incident to justify and maintain your poor parenting of her.

All multi-sibling families have children at different stages, with different needs and demands. As parents, as mothers, we dig deeper and find that time and attention. There's NO alternative. You are her only mother and yes, your life is very demanding, but she's a more important person than you and you need to do better, as you are in danger of ruining her life. She is a teenager, acting like a teenager. Don't resent her existence and demands for attention. She is not to blame for your hard life and no, you she cannot airbrush herself into a shadow that does not plague you with demands for a phone or attention. Your lack of "maternal" characteristics does not mean you can't be a good parent.

You need to visit a GP promptly for support with your anger.

I quoted the wrong post I meant to refer to the OP’s description of self injury (banging her head), suicidal ideation etc

Do you ever just do stuff together, just for fun, just you and her, go and do a run together, a sea swim, a bike ride, crazy golf, something physically active?

Im not convinced a lot of the time that sitting around in therapy is helpful in situations like this, the problem isnt her, you're struggling with your attachment modelling to her, she is now a teen, all of this will have had its early effects on her blue print, so you need to connect, physically, together.

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As a mum of a kid with a lot of mental health issues I can hear huge alarm bells ringing here. Tics, hitting herself, threatening self harm, massive perfectionism and a mum who admits to struggling to show her love. Your kid sounds like she is hurtling towards a mental health crash and burn. As she is already receiving counselling I would let them know. For this instance I personally would wait until mine calmed down and then go hug and find out what happened. How did she end up so angry and upset that she hit herself, what’s behind all this. I’d explain my financial constraints calmly and without a laptop open covered in phones. Then I’d ask her to work with me in finding a solution.
That would probably get us out the other side still loving one another and without her harming herself. In our house we accept emotional outbursts as unavoidable sometimes and try to work past them. It’s my job to stay calm because I’m the adult and she is the autistic anxious depressed teenager. She doesn’t get everything she wants but shouting makes her catatonic for a week so I’ve learned to deal in different ways. You sound like you you’d like to care so treat her as if you do and maybe it will grow. You are angry, boo hoo you, you are an adult, swallow your anger and look after your mentally unwell kid before she really hurts herself badly.

Yes, they definitely DO justify the child’s behaviour! As parents we owe it to our kids to sort out our shit so they get the parents they deserve. Explaining the reasons and dealing with the reasons are miles apart. OP needs to close that gap by working through her own issues alongside therapy for the child.

swearing/ hitting is the least of the worries here.

There is absolutely no excuse. Or reason. To neglect a child. None whatsoever. This child is being neglected.

The poor girl is talking about killing herself, she has self harming, she is far behind her peers with not having her phone. This girls needs have not been met whatsoever and she even had to choose her own school herself. The OP is neglectful and abusive. And then chose to go on and have another child she coincidently loves?

calling it sneering all you want. I'd sneer at anyone who neglects a child.

I agree with this.

Put yourself in her shoes. She probably picks up on the fact you struggle to show her love. How do you think she feels? She has a disabled sibling that does receive love, and also probably a lot more attention than she does.

Please don't underestimate the pressure that teens feel to 'have what everyone else has'. Its awful. I remember an episode with my youngest when we were getting her some trainers. The ones we wanted to buy her, and could afford at the time, she hated. Said they were ugly and she got so upset it was unreal. On sitting down and talking to her about why she had got so upset she said that everyone will make fun of her if she wore those shoes. And to be 'accepted' she needed to have Adidas or Nike. She was beside herself and so scared of being teased and judged.

Not condoning her actions but your DD has just had a moment and flipped. Try and talk to her, sensibly, about what she wants and try and come to a compromise. This is what we did with our DD with the trainers. Showing you are listening to her and take on board how she feels and why will hopefully help.

Are those the issues? You say you don’t feel or express yourself the same towards your youngest DD so I think blaming your parents is a cop out. You can express love but not to her?

This sounds really difficult for all of you. It is positive that you are recognising your role in this and that you need to manage how you respond to your daughter. A couple of things that occur to me is to try to think of your daughter as you at that age and how you were feeling and what you needed - that whole thing about children needing love when they are at their least loveable. Her behaviour is trying to tell you something about how she feels (something it seems she struggles to say or doesn’t want to say to a therapist). Another thing that occurs to me is that you say how good her father is with her and that is absolutely wonderful, but I wonder if that might be triggering something in you given you mention your father was abusive and you mention your husband is great with her in the context of your not being so great with her - it crosses my mind that maybe there is some absolutely understandable (if misplaced) envy for her having a wonderful
father and also whether this is on some
level what you’re thinking of when you talk about her being entitled - possibly that you didn’t behave like this when you had two not great parents and yet here she is with one great parent and one who is trying to be a good parent and she’s behaving like this? The positive thing is that despite the struggles you’re having she does feel on some level and in some way able to try to communicate what she is feeling - try to listen. I may be totally wrong but it occurred to me reading your posts. It is a really positive thing that you are trying to break this cycle - many of us are trying to do this and it’s not easy. x

I’m not justifying anything. OP’s inability to connect with DD and show her motherly love is driving DD’s difficulties. OP knows that. She posted for help and support, not so posters can tell her over and over again what she already knows. She’s accessed therapy but clearly that hasn't helped - l suspect because therapy gives you insight but doesn’t always offer a solution. Some of the comments here are truly awful - l would have thought MN would be the ideal place to find support, but with the exception of those people who have similar experience, or who have at least tried to understand and offer advice, it’s mostly been a pile on. And sadly it will end the same way as a lot of other threads do these days - abandoned by the OP. How is that helpful to either mother or child ?

Exactly this. This is entirely on the OP.

Regarding the phone - do you give her pocket money, birthday money etc - could you offer to give her the amount you can afford but she could save from her pocket money to get something more expensive? Or does she have any other tech she could sell/trade in (or you could on her behalf) at somewhere like CEX for a better 'preloved' phone.

I'm just wondering if she hasn't really considered the budget side of things - if she thinks you as her parents have endless money - and making her contribute if she wants a more expensive phone might be a good reality check.

(I realise there are many issues going on with her which people are giving great advice on, but I wanted to offer a suggestion about the issue that triggered the meltdown.)

You have to put yourself out there with your DD instead of just acknowledging your issues (to yourself?) and saying you'll take her out somewhere every couple of weeks. She wants you, your time and input. When she's asked for something you've said no. Have you asked her what she would ideally like? Then you have somewhere to work from and find a compromise together. The make up etc are because she's feeling insecure and possibly has low self esteem. You need to build her up, not have her vying for your attention or criticise her for things you don't understand.

You know what the issue is, but don't seem to have thought about any way to try to build a closer relationship with her. You're the adult, take a step, even if it doesn't feel natural or comfortable, and just try. It will help if you acknowledge her frustration and her upset. Listen to her and don't interrupt or tell her why she's wrong in your opinion - she's literally crying out for attention, but she's getting reprimanded for how she has gone about this. She doesn't know another way at this age.

My relationship with my parents has come to the fore as they get older and need more help. It's made me analyse my childhood and I see now where and why I struggled. It's taken me years to overcome some of that. Some of it I never will. Take some small steps now no matter how uncomfortable it feels to you.

It sounds like this is autism

It doesnt sound like a meltdown, its a reasonable and expected tantrum to disappointment because its triggered feelings of rejection in her due to insecure attachment.

It is not reasonable however to reject all the phone options, she is still a teen and only 13 and will have the phone her parents choose for her out of those options.

Not every thing an autistic child does is a meltdown or due to their autism.

You say you struggle to show affection? A day out is nice but there needs to be affection.

Do you hug her? Talk to her? Watch TV with her when your other child is asleep? Let her have the occasional day off school so you can be together? Share hobbies? Go for walks? Do you tell her that you love her? Often?

My mum did all these things and as a result I never became resentful of my disabled sibling like some siblings I know did. I always felt unconditionally loved. The attention you get as the sibling of a high needs child doesn’t have to be the same - it will never be the same - but it has to be there. It’s not too late for you but it does sound like you urgently need some form of family therapy.

Iphones are rubbish compared to Samsung and most other brands actually.

Get her a refurbished older iphone if it's just about what it looks like. She clearly just wants to fit in. At 13 everyone is a sheep. She wants to fit in and be normal as her home life isn't

At that age, they don’t care about your budget and they’re not really that attuned to functionality. Their concern is the look of phones. I have a stand-off with my DD at the moment because she wants a model of Phone that’s £100 more than another perfect good one simply because it’s pink.

I do think, however that you need to sit her down and calmly explain why she won’t be getting anything for e.g. a month and once she’s calmed down and has been polite, you will get her something. However, you really need to tackle your generalised anger with her. A child that feels rejected will react in a very hostile and offensive manner. The person who needs to do a lot more work in this relationship is you. You have a very very small window before she’s uninterested in talking to you and then the narrative will be. I’ve never had a close relationship with my mother.

Don't make plans FOR her. I would have a proper heart to heart. Tell her how shit this is for you and how you understand this is also shit for her. You can tell her you want to make it better but don't know how and then come up with a plan TOGETHER to make things better for you two, at least within the limitations and challenges you are both facing. Regarding the phone, hand the reigns over to her. Give her the budget she must stick to and let her do the research.