DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

I agree re asking for a young carers’ referral. It can be incredibly hard having a disabled sibling.

My DS1 is disabled so DS2 is a lifelong young carer. He was just 4 when I came off the phone from yet another medical call about DS1. He asked me why I always told people on the phone that I was <brother’s name’s> mummy, because I was his mummy too. That nearly broke me.

When they were 6 and 3, DH and I made a huge fuss of DS1 for putting his own shoes on for the first time. DS2 was sitting on the bottom of the stairs, waggling his feet with his own shoes on, and looking completely baffled that we hadn’t said well done to him too.

They are a lot older now but we have a whole lifetime of trying to balance their very different needs and parent them both well. It’s damn hard being the parent of a disabled child. I think it’s every bit as hard - if not moreso - being their sibling.

Every kid at my DDs school had iPhones and she didn’t until year 11. She did not get bullied at all. Until she’s paying she shouldn’t have a choice.

The hitting and tics however are her way of showing real stress, she is reaching out and if you’ve struggled to show her love it’s possibly the only way she knows how. She’s lashed out for a reason and that needs dealing with.

Yes I understand that too. She does need love.

But tics and self harm and suicidal expression are not normal in children; they are triggers for serious investigation.

Ask me how I know.

Mother of five and have worked in residential children's homes with teenagers

As others have said don't get her a phone she has just showed you she isn't mature enough to have one. A phone will only make your difficulties with her worse.

If my own child I would give her a months screen ban a week isn't nearly long enough for a violent outburst. You want to get her through the tantrum about ban stage that can be horrific and take at least a week. So brace yourself it will possibly feel worse than the initial incident. Then she will go into a more reflective stage. Once she is being more reflective you can discuss what happens and how emotions need to be handled in the future.

Too late for the OP but I think when considering whether to have children, the first question a woman should ask herself is have I been mothered well enough myself to be a good enough mother to any potential child/children. And, if not, have I learnt in other ways how to be a good enough mother. In significant numbers the answer would be no. Which is one of the many reasons I don't have kids. It's very sad but passing on generational trauma is not fair on any of the individuals involved nor the wider society in which they will live.

I don’t think it’s bollocks at all. I think you’re both spot on.

Reset today. Pretend yesterday didn't happen. Explain that your budget is X for the phone so would she like to wait until she has saved pocket money or received birthday and Christmas money or get that phone now.

Stop blaming your relationship with your relatives on how you are now with your daughter. You've chosen to be as you are. I speak from experience. You're the adult, you need to do better.

Your daughter is only 13. She doesn't know how to cope with all her feelings, so she is swearing and lashing out. She needs guidance on how what she's feeling is to be expected snd how to manage and express in a productive and safe way.

She needs real help for MH and possible SEN, I understand that you've had to fight to get your younger child the support she needs, and its probably drained you, but you need to now fight for your other daughter. You might need to pay for private therapy if CAMHS can't help or have a long waiting list, the same for family therapy. Her needs maybe less visible than your younger daughter, but from her actions she is literally crying out for help. Are you on the spectrum by any chance? Your posts feel very detached, factual and unemotional - that's not a criticism by the way, but could explain a few things, especially if both daughters are also ND.

Is there anyway you could give your dd13 20 minutes a day, instead of the trip out once a fortnight?

sit with her after school and have a cup of coffee or tea and ask her

what was the funniest thing that happened today, how were your friends? Who did you sit with at lunch? Which was the worst lesson? But most of all you must listen to the answers and never ask “ how did your day go?” Don’t talk about yourself unless she asks

its trivial question to build the communication and allow her time to tell you stuff over weeks. It small steps to building conversations, building trust that you will listen

as for the everything perfect and you not understanding - you’re not her or her generation

It’s not about the phone. Or the outburst. Read the thread.

Did you miss all of the other things in the OP - mother not loving her or showing her love, always feeling angry towards her but not knowing why, focusing on younger daughters needs, dealing with a severely disabled younger sibling, 'joking' about killing herself? Nobody is justifying her behaviour but don't you think there's more going on here than just a phone?

None of us on here can really help you to love your daughter, that’s really something you need therapy for.
While her behaviour is awful, I feel so much empathy for this girl. I also have a disabled child who takes up a lot of time, and I can see how that affects his older siblings. So she’s dealing with that, and also with a mother who, through no fault of the child’s, cannot be a loving mother to her. Life at 13 is hard enough as it is.
I agree with the poster who says she isn’t crying out for attention, she’s crying out for help.

Jesus! Have you read the thread?

OP clearly has attachment difficulties due to the poor attachment behaviour between her and her own mother.

This almost seems too obvious but it may still be true even though she is 13. She sees that her sister acts in a particular (different) way and gets full attention. It isn’t too much of a leap to think that she’s trying a similar approach to see if it effects change for herself
We may think that as she is older she understands her sister’s additional needs and will reduce her own demands on your time- that may not be possible for her all the time

Agree with this, she probably needs quantity time with the OP over something fancier once a fortnight.

I find the apparent need for perfection of her appearance somewhat worrying. No answers because it is not my area of expertise.

An observation from your first post is that you are punishing her with delaying her phone purchase due to her outburst. That is understandable. A week is a long time in the life of an adolescent though. Then it seems that you are adding screen ban and grounding. This sounds unreasonable I think the fairest way to respond to unacceptable behaviour is to have the rules established beforehand. If she knew that swearing results in grounding AND a screen ban then it is fine. If not it appears that you are just randomly throwing punishments at her.

I like the idea of her having control of the budget and choosing the phone from there. Perhaps give her the opportunity to earn an extra £20 on the budget by doing the ironing or some other chore. Also be very clear from the start (ie from before you buy it) about when and how the phone is used and what the consequences are for breaking those rules. FWIW I also think that parents have to be careful about their smartphone use in front of their kids. If you are saying to her that there are restrictions I think parents should stick to those restrictions themselves.

Everyone else is addressing that . I am addressing the incident originally posted about because if this child is given a phone she will become impossible to reach and turn around no matter what the mother does to alter her own relationship and behaviour towards the girl. Small practical steps in becoming a better parent are the way to change in this case I believe. Could be wrong but this is my own approach. Next I was going to talk about the help school and social services can provide.

Actually I do, having had a mother who couldn’t show love I completely understand DD’s reaction. OP isn’t really trying to improve things, she was going to punish her daughter for an emotional breakdown. She admits having therapy hasn’t helped her mother her daughter and some comments show she isn’t capable. My life has been ruined by my mother, in spite of years of therapy. The mother needs to do better for her daughter.

I sympathise OP. You had an unideal childhood which has led to difficulties in bringing a loving mother. You’ve got a seriously disabled child.

BUT, you’ve had chance to address those issues. You’re the adult now. Your eldest is desperate for love and attention. She likely feels unloved. She gets less attention at home due to her siblings needs. She possibly does some caring for her sister. She goes to a very strict school with extremely high expectations. She’s a young teenager. She possibly hasn’t been able to express herself openly and honestly with the people who are supposed to be her ‘safe place’.

thisnis far more urgent than a grounding and fortnightly girlie afternoon. You need to get help and support for her and yourself right now. Call Sibs (charity). Get back into therapy for yourself but don’t focus on your own difficulties, focus on how you become the mum your eldest daughter needs. Talk with school about the head hitting, tics, suicide threats, talk with your gp.

she needs you now. Right now. She needs love, attention, time, focus.

I would suggest you speak to a lot of other parents of children of age 13/14 and see how volatile their children are!
A bit of swearing at you is obviously not ideal but I don't think it's the hill to die on right now. The phone clearly means a lot to her - perhaps one area of her life that would allow her to feel a sense of control - and that may help her mental health. I don't think you should punish her by not even allowing her that.

I agree wholehartedly with this.

The fact that her reaction now is still anger when her DD has told her she’s suicidal is terrifying, quite honestly.

Exactly this. And to the people who excuse OP's behaviour by saying that she acknowledges her behaviour - what good is acknowledging it if you're not actively taking essential steps to do better?

In all honesty, if a person can contemplate punishing a vulnerable person, much less their own child, when that child has confessed to being suicidal, then I am not convinced that that person really does acknowledge, accept or even take responsibility for their past actions.

She also says in her OP that her father was abusive - something that hasn’t really been picked up on. There’s clearly a lot of trauma that wasn’t addressed before OP had her own children and l think both OP and DD need help to find the right kind of therapy to allow them to understand and process what’s happening, and to give OP the skills to move on from it and to find the missing connection with DD.

You're missing the point focusing on the phone here - but on that, ofc her schoolfriends would see her phone, they'd hang out together in other places too.

I thought the poster you quoted made a very good point about the anxiety. Because for this DD the fear around fitting in will be on a whole other level. Most of the other kids will have a baseline of knowing they're fundamentally loved and therefore whether they have the right phone/clothes/hairdo or not, they won't feel it so acutely. This DD knows on some fundamental level her mother doesn't love her and it will make her feel unloveable and so much more desperate to fit in. As a PP said, this could get so much worse, seeking love in the wrong places, boys, grooming etc. Her self-worth is through the floor. She's already hitting herself and talking about suicide.

Instead of seeing the pain her DD's in, OP is furious and focusing on being called an idiot. She is self-aware in some ways but unable to get past her own issues to help her DD who's heading for a crisis and an unhappy life if this can't be overcome. I'd find a way to make the iphone happen (and no talk of seeing this as rewarding the bad behaviour, they're way beyond such toddler logic), and start working on their relationship together. Never mind some 121 time every fortnight. Take time every day, have therapy together, be there for her and listen to her, force yourself past these negative emotions with everything it takes. Both of you need to heal and break the cycle of mother/daughter abuse from today.