Social referral.. never had this before and absolutely terrified

[Wonderland12]

Speech & language referred to SS apparently school have raised concerns also but not said anything. Allegations are dental neglect and that his teeth “look dirty” - has weak teeth dentist visit today confirmed reduce in sugar but otherwise all dental care perfect brushing by ourselves and no issue with brushing teeth all being done as should. Required some treatment which was given but nothing out of the ordinary or extreme. Dentist said it’s just where he has has previous treatment and stains it looks “dirty” but nothing wrong. He has routine appointments we attend all and he goes to any treatments they plan.

Permanent stain on school clothes - they raised stains or marks on school jumper. Clothes always washed but has got a permanent small stain about 5mm wide on one and a couple of very light pen marks on the other.. they don’t come out I’ve tried.

Says he has a dirty neck sometimes.. he has a bath at least twice a week, usually plays outside school in the mornings before they go in with his friends in the grass on the field & also eats a breakfast pastry on the way to school and he’s not a clean eater. Could be from that but he is bathed and cleaned regularly we are not dirty people!!

Now have to wait for a SS call or visit, absolutely beside myself as he is extremely well cared for the anxiety is horrific thinking people think he might not be cared for when it couldn’t be further from the truth

God I can just imagine these nasty children sweating over someone in beds as adults who still think daily washing is a waste of time. So many women have had awful experiences with men who have obviously been risen within this cultural norm of infrequent bathing. It's revolting.

Yes. The bar is incredibly low. Which is why so many posters (who i bet work in schools) know that the bathing twice a week argument which is completely selfishly taking over the thread, will be only one small point.

My son also had ‘stained’ teeth thst eventually went away- it’s normal.

his uniform was an ansolute state most of the time: mud, paint, marker pen, snot. He’s 17 now abd fine.

my sin gas eczema so bath once a week, if that as he hated them sbd I didn’t enforce them. We forget that it’s not good for us to wash so often. His eczema has cleared up and resolved and now as a 17 year old hes always in tbe shower.

he got all 9s in his GCSEs so having just one bath a week didn’t profoundly harm him.

I am loving the many replies saying children don't need to be bathed daily unless visibly dirty. This child is visibly dirty and along with the stained clothes and discoloured teeth, it doesn't paint a great picture.
The OP herself wrote that he makes a mess while eating, that alone should warrant a quick two minute shower or shallow bath every evening. Never mind that kids that age don't clean themselves properly after the toilet.
Bathe your kids people.

Projecting much?

Then if there is no access to water or OP cannot afford it then intervention is valid. Maybe OP is unaware of what benefits are available to her and what help is at hand. Like I said, from my experience we have a family support worker in school who often picks up these things - if breakfast is an issue then some children will get fed in school so they have access to cereal, fruit and milk, school will offer a spare jumper if it becomes apparent the mum can only afford one, the family support worker can help with referrals to other services and make the families aware of help they are entitled to, this could be food banks if struggling for food or accessing benefits, help with housing and so on.
Services usually want to help and see what support can be offered. It's not a case of we must remove that child!
Also sometimes it can help identify other issues - S&L are involved, are there other sen needs? E.g. eating on the way to school because they won't get up in the morning, having a tantrum, refusal to eat healthier foods, dirty as they won't wash, do have another jumper but won't wear it as it doesn't feel the same (sensory issues), don't like brushing teeth as don't like the feeling (sensory).

This. Two baths a week, I'm sorry but you ARE dirty people if that's true. The sugar intake and pastries are ludicrous too. Please educate yourself. Daily washing is a bare minimum place to start.

They won't take him don't worry. I think bathing needs to be more frequent simply based on his active outdoor lifestyle, my son is an outdoor boy and if I didn't bath him everyday he'd be muddy and his hair would grow mushrooms!

Also, just for teeth care a breakfast pastry on the walk to school presumably after he's brushed his teeth may not be helping the situation with weak teeth, usually brush after breakfast. I know mornings are chaotic but breakfast at home then brushing teeth would be better for oral hygiene since he has naturally weak teeth, anything to help. Nutritionally a pastry isn't also very filling or adding anything beyond carbs and fats to his diet, does he not like cereal?

Try not to be defensive and make some changes that you can.

When we make referrals we have to tell the family, unless it will further endanger the child.

SS have to follow up on referrals especially from schools who see children every day so will usually contact you to arrange a home visit talk to your child and often ask to look in the fridge. If everything is as you say they will NFA the case so don't worry too much.

Got to agree with others that bathing twice a week doesn't sound enough - I couldn't get away with that with my junior age girls. So if he's looking 'grubby' a lot of the time then that fact considered along with everything else (teeth, diet, speech etc) could be a cause for concern.

SS aren't going to take him off you though, be assured of that. They will just give you some tips or support to up your game a bit.

Easier said than done but try not to spiral!

Schools rarely raise concerns unless they have them. Concerns are not the same as fact.

Breakfast pastries doesn’t sound healthy. He needs a proper breakfast.

Dental treatment isn’t normal for a child. Why has your son had it already and why does the dentist have to tell you to reduce sugar? If my child had to have dental treatment, I’d be instantly lowering sugar. No fizzy drinks, much less sweets and chocolate. More fruit and veg.

Social services only get involved when it’s clear there’s neglect or abuse. It sounds like they may just assess you, offer advice and close the case.

Only projecting the repulsion I feel when near someone unwashed and musty

I have to bath my kids daily. They’d be v dirty if I didn’t! I don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing it less often if your children are still clean. My kids white pe shirts are v stained. I don’t change them when we get him because I don’t want loads of washing and if school choose white they can expect stains. Mine have daily clean uniform but I cannot bring myself to care about stains. If he’s cleaning his teeth and going to the dentist then that’s fine too. Unless there is more to this I know that children’s social care will not be interested.

Your son may be smart but at 16, he sounds absolutely disgusting in terms of his hygiene. You should be ashamed of yourself

By your own description OP he sounds like he's going into school scruffy and unkempt, with food all over his uniform, dirt / grass all over him which they will not know are from playing that morning.
Are his shoes in good condition? Is his hair cut? Fingernails (that can be excused sometimes bc some kids really hate having that done)
The bathing twice a week to me is just unacceptable. Absolutely disgusting in my eyes especially if you say he is rolling around a field on mud / grass etc. He needs it washing off or he will look filthy in a few days. I have 4 sons and by the end of each day they all needed a bath due to the state they got in playing outside or at school. From age 7/8 they preferred a shower.

School shirts are cheap from Poundland, Matalan, Asda ect there is no excuses for the pen marks on them washed or not.
You need to up your standards OP as you sound very lackadaisical about it all.

Research from last year found that frequency of bathing doesn't generally have an effect but it is individual.

Psoriasis and eczema run in my family, and we all have dry skin which feels irritated after a shower (probably because I use hot water rather than lukewarm as recommended as I get too cold). I still shower every day as I would stink otherwise but need a tonne of ointment afterwards so I can see why many with skin conditions don't wash everyday as it is time consuming and expensive.

Saying all this - at the very least this child should have their face, neck, and ears cleaned with a flannel at least twice a day (hands should be washed way more often obviously).

Lukewarm water and a topical treatment for in the shower is effective for most people followed by moisturising the skin. You don't skip hygiene ever.

Why does he eat breakfast pastries on the way to school? Surely not good for his teeth?

It’s just not though is it. People need to have higher standards for themselves and their children. I get not actually bathing / showering occasionally but children need to be properly washed at the sink with soap and a flannel if they aren’t bathing. I find it easier to shove them in the shower. Primary aged children are the worst. All sticky and grubby by the end of the day. It’s also good relaxation that promotes good sleep habits. You are setting them up with their normal standards of personal hygiene for life too. My sporty teen showers when he gets home and every morning before school without fail. He literally never smells and his room smells nice too. Why would you teach your children washing twice a week is ok. This is why public transport stinks - poor personal hygiene of a minority that think it’s enough. PSA it’s really not.

Let's leave the argument about eczema to another thread, but the issue is that any of us who work with young people have seen kids who are continually grubby and look uncared for. While it's not exactly a reason to be taken into care (it's gotta be pretty bad for that!) It's a cause for concern and by the time it's reached social care there's loads of other stuff going on that the OP hasn't told us about

That's not a cultural thing though. Calm down, imagining these kids sweating over partners when they're adults, and telling people their kids are disgusting and they should be ashamed... Why are you so rude and angry? Go and have a nice long soak in the bath.

If he has a stain on his shirt, it's easy to spot how often that shirt gets changed, is he wearing the same one everyday?

Also it's not about getting away with doing the minimum. There will be other kids in the class who look "cherished" with freshly laundered, pressed clothes, polished shoes, everything about them spick and span.

It's sad but yours will stand out as scruffy and this can be confused with unloved.

I think these things in their own don’t meet the criteria for referral but maybe as a whole they paint a picture?

my DC had stained but clean uniform, he would wave round some whiteboard type pen willy nilly and get it on his top or jumper. I repeatedly told school that it didn’t come out but they still used them. I am not purchasing loads of clothes because of this. It is wasteful! Providing the clothes are still washed I think it’s a none issue personally.

Teeth is a huge one for me, two DC of mine detest it. Both autistic. One has to be physically pinned down, she then bites down on the toothbrush so we cannot manoeuvre it around her mouth. She’s none verbal so can’t tell us what it is she struggles with about it, yes we have tried different toothpastes, flavourless toothpaste, singing, apps, different toothbrushes, 3 sided toothbrushes.. you name it we’ve tried it. I’m not going to lie and say some nights we don’t skip it because we do. She finds it incredibly distressing. Luckily due to her limited diet her only drinking water her teeth are doing OK and we will hopefully be referred to the local SEN dentist. I try not to judge others because of this.

I would do more than 2 baths a week, kids do get grubby even when they aren’t outside tbh, mine do anyway, don’t ask me how because I do not know.

if we eat breakfast in the car it means we’re running late af. 99% it’s eaten at home.

I am sure nothing will come of this @Wonderland12maybe a quick check to ensure you’re coping OK? Honestly SS barely have the resources to attend to actual child abuse cases. This would not meet the threshold here. Maybe early help/family support but even that’s pushing it!

Also my DD shoes were falling apart, she had brand new Clarks ones in a box but refused to wear them as they felt too new. 🙈 I told the school and even took them in to show them I wasn’t just not replacing them.