First ever baby to be expelled from nursery?!

[SaraG3018]

Hi all. I've got an 18mo DD who is just, a firecracker. She's always called a happy baby by everyone, and she is, but she's also absolutely savage and insane. Everything is a delight and a game and a reason to get overexcited.

Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much but nursery have now put her on a behaviour plan! I never heard of such a thing.

When she started to be like this around 12-14mo we used to firmly tell her not to, remove her from the situation or toy or person, but not over labour the point so as not to give her attention over it. She loves the attention. We also got given a sticker chart and a set of laminated cards with red stop signs or happy or sad faces etc to help her identify her feelings or to know when to stop.

I know all toddlers can get this way but my older DD who's now 6 was never this bad. She's now on a behaviour plan where the nursery tries to track any triggers or particular people but they're not spotting any pattern. They ring us almost daily now with something she's done, and mostly she's not hurting other kids though there have been a couple of occasions of pushing or pulling. She knows how to say sorry and does it well, so understands the concepts of no or kind hands. But the thing is, for her, it's never a tantrum or upset or malicious behaviour it's the opposite- she's just happy and overexcited and misplaces the energy. She doesn't realise when she could hurt someone, she just has this thrilled look in her eye like it's all play.

At this point I genuinely feel like my little happy girl might be the first ever baby to get expelled from a nursery! I half feel indignant because, why are the nursery staff ringing me to check if I've been using the sticker chart properly when I'm at work... she's literally a 1 year old baby who can't speak yet. She's just about starting to pick up single words now. On the other hand, I know she's more demanding than my first and handsy and I'm starting to feel like a bad mum. But I literally don't know what else I can do? If I tell her off even more she just wiggles away or gets happier from the attention and eye contact. She's kind of feral but we love it and think it's just her baby nature and will grow out of it. But is there something I'm missing? Could we be trying something else? Any advice much appreciated! At this daily rate I'm sure they're going to tell us they can't handle her and we need to leave soon!

She can’t speak but she “knows how to say sorry”, how does that work?!

It sounds like you may be unintentionally encouraging her behaviour because you find it cute. You need to be putting the foundations in now and strongly discouraging things like throwing toys e.g. take the toy away if it is thrown. Nurseries work with toddlers all the time so if your toddler’s behaviour is being flagged as outside the normal expectations then I’d be taking it seriously and trying to find a consistent approach between home and nursery to improve things as much as possible.

@SaraG3018 a lot of nursery staff haven’t a clue and label children too early on when they’ve had a day of training on behaviour for example. There was a post on here teh other day about a nursery labelling a child as autistic and saying they were stimming when there was no evidence of that. Anyway, I think maybe a forest school would be better for her or at least a nursery/ childminder who has a clue about lovely kids. Would you choose a nanny? They can take her out more.

You could try baby sign language - they can learn it at that age and it bypasses some frustrations they have when they want things but can't talk well enough to ask for them.

Pulling hair is a complete no. You have to be stern about that, she will know from how serious you are and how different to normal that it's not an accepted behavior. Biting too if its an issue (I'm not assuming it is). Absolutely have to nip those in the bud asap.

Wondering about this too. "Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much but nursery have now put her on a behaviour plan! I never heard of such a thing." The OP doesn't really mind it so much. However, at nursery she can't be allowed to pull hair as if it's a bit of fun.

Giving up work isn’t the answer as her child will still have to interact with other children in life (friends kids, parties, soft play, toddler groups).

How is she when she goes to those places OP?

I don't think should be ringing you all the time, it doesn't help things. I would change nurseries if you can. They seem like they are over dramatising things

You’ve admitted ‘she’s feral and you love it’

that’s your problem right there!

I think you love the fact she’s probably more boisterous and has character but you want the best of a well behaved kind child…. Unfortunately those two combos don’t mix well.

I had a friend exactly like you… I didn’t want to spend time with her child in the end, she was annoying, didn’t listen, genuinely wild!
she was a new mum friend so my friendship wasn’t strong enough to want to hang around with her any longer.

It sounds like the nursery have put together an ABC chart. It is a tool to look at behaviour- what happened before the 'unwanted' behaviour, what was the unwanted behaviour and what happened afterwards.

Whilst the nursery should absolutely be telling you this is what they've done: it would appear they haven't appropriately explained that 'unwanted' behaviour is very common in toddlers this age, is not your fault, or your baby's and most definitely will be age and stage related and developmentally NORMAL.

The nursery should feed back to you if they've found any correlation in your daughter's behaviour: triggers, patterns: and how they are going to SUPPORT your child going forward.

Unwanted behaviour at this age is almost always down to communication skills - as toddlers try to navigate big feelings but may not always have the words for what they want (food, drink, hug, playing, reading, a toy) or how they feel (sleepy, hungry, tired, frustrated, happy, sad) and they will act on impulse. This is NORMAL.

Ways that you can help your little one is by encouraging words and moddleing speech...

However, the nursery is responsible for supporting you and your child through this too. They most definitely should not be calling everyday. That's too much. Maybe after 2 or 3 weeks. Once at the end of a week if necessary.

I would be asking what they are doing to support your child's behaviour. Turn it back on them.

I hope this helps but please know that it's all very normal. Your daughter isn't going to get expelled- she is displaying developmentally normal behaviour.

None of those behaviours are awesome or to be celebrated or laughed at. Injuring others doesn’t mean your child has ‘personality’ or a ‘firecracker’. Sadly, if its not taken seriously, it will be the child that suffers, never invited to parties etc as who would put up with that behaviour.

I imagine alot is going on that OP hasn’t been told about (other parents complaining). If my child was bitten or had their hair pulled at nursery, i’d be speaking to the nursery staff at pick up and i’d want to know what actions were being taken to stop it happening again.

As an ADHD mum of an adhd daughter I’m feeling this may be going on in the background but I would just keep this in mind at the moment.

Is the nursery a very active one? She might suit one that encourages children to explore and learn and that is very active. High energy children are better suited to being kept on the go otherwise that energy is going to go into other behaviours.

We tried to squish my daughter into fitting into nursery/school (I remember the daily phone calls well!) and it eventually fell apart. It took a long time to find her enthusiasm again so I love that you embrace your daughter’s personality and I hope you find an environment where it can be nurtured x

Feral might be cute for you but the other parents might have something to say. Is she slapping and hitting other children. It really isn’t cute.

Her being a firecracker, handsy and in your words feral and you “loving it” is the problem. It’s not her baby nature, she’s now 18 months and if you don’t curb things it’s going it get worse. Either it is a behaviour thing that whilst you think is cute-it’s not and needs addressing, or she’s neuro diverse and needs assessing.

She is too young for a sticker chart!

Her description in the first post is exactly the same as her update - I'm not sure why you're suggesting it isn't. She clearly says in the OP that there have been a couple of instances of pushing or pulling, that her child mostly isn't hurting other children, and doesn't once mention 'fisty'.

Having read your subsequent replies I feel very sad at the thought of any of her affectionate behaviour and outgoingness being stamped on. She’s unfortunate to be growing up in a society where you’ve got a very high proportion of ND kids who won’t want to be touched or held, and culturally schools that rigorously enforce behavioural policies.

What do other people around you say? I wonder if grandparents or close friends might give you a perspective you’re missing but you may also have to steel yourself up to hear stuff you don’t really want

Sounds like you nursery expect your 1 year old to act like a 4 year old.

She's 1 she's learning to navigate the world and her own wants and needs it will take time for her to learn restraint and understand sticker charts because at 1 she doesn't understand course and effect.

I had a feral toddler who is now the most well behaved lovely rule following child. No sticker charts or cards required just time to grow and learn.

So your baby hasn’t actually been expelled, the nursery are just doing their job, but they don’t find your baby as unique and wonderful as you do? Is this your first baby?

Seems strange that the nursery would expect that though?
Surely there is a baby room full of other babies not acting like 4 year olds?

The problem is that your words are at odds with your tone. You’re not coming across as though you consider this to be serious. If you’re joking to nursery that she’s just a bit of a savage and a bit feral they will rightly think you’re not taking this seriously enough and do what they can to encourage you to take her elsewhere, like ringing you everyday. They will have lots of other kids that are easier to manage and I’m sure other kids on a waiting list so it’ll be a kick in the face to them they don’t need if you’re presenting to them the way you’re presenting in some of your posts.

These things stand out for me :

firecracker

absolutely savage and insane.

she gets handsy

she throws toys or pulls hair

they're not spotting any pattern

she doesn't realise when she could hurt someone, she just has this thrilled look in her eye like it's all play

she's kind of feral but we love it

They ring us almost daily now

I half feel indignant

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These are all terrible ways to behave. And you seem to be making loads of excuses.

Your solution is to : use laminated cards with red stop signs or happy or sad faces etc to help her identify her feelings or to know when to stop - sounds wimpish. Why aren't you telling her off? You're being far, far too soft.

And you say : If I tell her off even more she just wiggles away or gets happier from the attention and eye contact. Can't you keep your grip on a toddler? Again, you're being too soft.

You also say : I know all toddlers can get this way - not really, especially girls.

I honestly think we lost the plot when we stopped being able to give toddlers a smack on the bum.

I completely agree with all of this. If she’s a fairly bright and active toddler she more than likely just needs to be moved up into the next room. I have a just turned 2yo DD and she’s great unless she’s bored, at which point she’s a holy terror and will do things like throw her toys, etc. Obviously mine is a bit older and her understanding has come in more so I do approach it a bit differently, but for an 18mo punishing etc is mad - there’s no way it’s malicious or deliberate, they’re just babies! She may or may not turn out ND down the line but it’s far too early to call. Keep an eye on her, see if the nursery is willing to move her up a room (as the poster I’ve quoted also pointed out, toddler room staff will likely be much better equipped to handle her than baby room staff anyway!), consider changing nurseries if it doesn’t improve.

She’s late to speak so I’d be looking in to that.