First ever baby to be expelled from nursery?!

[SaraG3018]

Hi all. I've got an 18mo DD who is just, a firecracker. She's always called a happy baby by everyone, and she is, but she's also absolutely savage and insane. Everything is a delight and a game and a reason to get overexcited.

Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much but nursery have now put her on a behaviour plan! I never heard of such a thing.

When she started to be like this around 12-14mo we used to firmly tell her not to, remove her from the situation or toy or person, but not over labour the point so as not to give her attention over it. She loves the attention. We also got given a sticker chart and a set of laminated cards with red stop signs or happy or sad faces etc to help her identify her feelings or to know when to stop.

I know all toddlers can get this way but my older DD who's now 6 was never this bad. She's now on a behaviour plan where the nursery tries to track any triggers or particular people but they're not spotting any pattern. They ring us almost daily now with something she's done, and mostly she's not hurting other kids though there have been a couple of occasions of pushing or pulling. She knows how to say sorry and does it well, so understands the concepts of no or kind hands. But the thing is, for her, it's never a tantrum or upset or malicious behaviour it's the opposite- she's just happy and overexcited and misplaces the energy. She doesn't realise when she could hurt someone, she just has this thrilled look in her eye like it's all play.

At this point I genuinely feel like my little happy girl might be the first ever baby to get expelled from a nursery! I half feel indignant because, why are the nursery staff ringing me to check if I've been using the sticker chart properly when I'm at work... she's literally a 1 year old baby who can't speak yet. She's just about starting to pick up single words now. On the other hand, I know she's more demanding than my first and handsy and I'm starting to feel like a bad mum. But I literally don't know what else I can do? If I tell her off even more she just wiggles away or gets happier from the attention and eye contact. She's kind of feral but we love it and think it's just her baby nature and will grow out of it. But is there something I'm missing? Could we be trying something else? Any advice much appreciated! At this daily rate I'm sure they're going to tell us they can't handle her and we need to leave soon!

Your DD is very young but needs to be shown disapproval when she pulls hair or throws things. Otherwise how is she going to know this is unwanted behaviour. I agree sticker charts are no good at this age. And stop thinking this behaviour is cute. It isn't. You don't want your DD to be the child that other kids are scared of and parents avoid.

I would look elsewhere for a different setting.Forest School is a good idea there is room to move around. The Nursery sounds a bit inflexible to me .They would have come across similar behaviour before .it seems they are maybe not the right "fit" for your little girl.Stickers seem a weird thing too .She wont appreciate them and I dont see the point if they are meant to help you !

Change nurseries. Whether they’re wrong or right they’ve clearly labelled your daughter ‘a problem’ and almost sound like they downright don’t like her. She’ll pick up on that and it’s a horrible environment for her. Change nursery and see if the problem disappears. I bet it does

She’s an eighteen month baby!!!!!!! One year and six months. What on earth are you talking about?

I think you should change nurseries or even better try an experienced childminder.

A sticker chart for a child of that age is ridiculous.

Nurseries, with the best will in the world strive for an easy life, they have a lot of children to looks after and they need things to run smoothly. I think a childminder would be a better fit for your DD, she can form a proper relationship with one adult who can get to understand her and how to manage her behaviour consistently.

As a SEN mum x2 and a friend of many other SEN mums this sounds very likely to be SEN related. There are alot of traits there. Yet I am also quite offended by your ignorance that as she’s very smart she can’t be SEN. Almost every SEN child I have met has been far cleverer than most adults. Young children need structure, routine and consistency. Especially if there is any SEN needs.

With things like this and behaviour plans they look for “issues” that would otherwise be normal development in children.

Take her somewhere she is celebrated, not where she is tolerated.

Are the nursery staff all newly qualified and unused to toddlers?

Or are they very experienced and qualified and have known hundreds of toddlers?

If they are saying her behaviour is very far outside the norm, it really depends on whether they have rarely met toddlers or they have a really good idea of typical behaviour.

Lots of posters are suggesting the nursery staff don't know anything about toddlers but it seems unlikely to me that all the staff are unqualified teenagers?

Two kids in nursery from 2 and neither pulled hair or threw toys. That is not ‘cute or happy’ behaviour and as adults, it’s our job to show kids a better way to play. It might take alot of reinforching the message at home and at nursery, but that behaviour is not acceptable and it’s time for some parenting. Imagine a nursery full of 30 kids all behaving like that.

In all the threads on Mumsnet, I don’t think ive every heard of a child referred to as ‘absolutely insane and savage’. That is not a normal way to refer to any child.

I’d start parenting now because they won’t thrive through school if they can’t behave.

Nobody is going to celebrate if their child is bitten or attacked. Yes her behaviour needs to be guided in an appropriate way. But certainly not with sticker charts. Award good behaviour and show disapproval of bad seems to be a sensible approach.

Lots of people are saying change nursery and that the nursery is being lame. This may or may not be good advice, but what I would say is that nurseries deal with loads of children. They have a lot of experience. If they are phoning you daily expressing concern over your daughter's behaviour, I would take it seriously.

Yes, this.^^

errrr, my daughter was expelled from a crèche and later got an ASD dx. Just saying. If the child can't self regulate, or understand expected behaviour, ie - just in their own little world, it might be a thought???
haven't read the whole thread by the way, so sorry if i've missed some info.

Oh no 🤦‍♀️ That’s so silly OP, I’d find that utterly ridiculous if I were you.

Can you clarify what you mean by “handsy” as handsy to me is hitting? Most children do hit out occasionally but if they’re phoning you daily I’d take a guess that this is happening constantly.

Just pointing out to you, many children with SEN are highly intelligent, love books and their own company. Im not saying your child does have SEN (obviously it’s sometging to consider from some of the replies), but you seem to dismiss it as if SEN children can’t be super smart aswell.

Kids like these always end up with ASD or ADHD. They may appear to grow out of the behaviour, especially girls, but that's only because they quickly learn how to mask. You often see parents claiming their kids were wild in nursery but perfectly fine and neurotypical (that's a lie) at school. It's just because they learned how to observe those around them and realise that being too loud, fidgety or aggressive isn't ideal so they will tone their behaviour to fit in perfectly. 1-3 year olds have no concept of masking so that's why it's always an issue at nursery.

Kids can mask around their parents as well if they can sense shame around having a label. They can easily pick up how their mum talks about other ND children or generally about children who aren't perfectly behaved. That's how many adults end up undiagnosed.

A record of triggers is a good thing to have. I would find a new nursery.
As a SEN mum in the midst of it all with my 2, I would also put in a SAR for all records of and communication about your daughter. Fair enough that this may be her personality, but they way she behaves and copes means she may need more specialist education and the more evidence you have of her needs, the better.

You have said you dont mind her being handsy and that you like her being feral. So perhaps you aren't pulling her up on things she's doing wrong.
How would you feel if nursery were letting you know that another child was being handsy, pushing or hitting your daughter? Im pretty sure that you wouldn't like it.
So it looks like nursery are trying to stop her bad behaviour before it becomes worse and they are encouraging you to do the same. It really will help you all in the long wrong. And if it continues then perhaps move her to another nursery and see if things improve

I'd look to change nursery too
Her behaviour doesn't sound that extreme from what you are saying but hard to know but regardless recommending a sticker chart isn't going to help.

Agree with this. Dd is autistic but very bright. First class degree in a difficult subject. Always loved reading.

Yes, this was my thought. The Nursery are haranguing you because they think you’re not on side. Their expectations sound off though.

You say she isn’t hurting others, but has she? (Obviously not the fault of an 18 month old!) It might be the nursery under pressure from another parent who has a more placid baby who just doesn’t understand not all babies will just sit around.

How many days a week is she at nursery? Maybe it’s just not the right environment for her. Could you give up work or go part time?

i had two kids in nursery from 10 months old full time, so more than 4 years daily, and one wasn't easy. We didn't get calls, and they only called if it was something serious, so sounds strange daily.. unless its the nursery... But to be honest. Id have been upset if they were throwing food or toys at someone. It can be normal and 18 months is a tough age, but i wouldn't be finding it this funny to be honest.

The nursery do sound a bit hopeless however you need to be careful because you do come across as a little bit indulgent/ permissive. I’m not saying that a lot of this behaviour isn’t totally normal for a toddler, but if you find it all adorable and cute then you won’t be doing her any favours in how you handle it. How can you say you ‘don’t mind’ hair pulling? You should mind, and it should be clear to her that you mind!
The nursery shouldn’t be calling you for everything unless she’s hurt another child.
What does the behaviour plan involve?
You and the nursery should be agreeing together on which behaviours specifically need targeting, which ones merit a call to you and which don’t, and agree a shared approach for managing them.