First ever baby to be expelled from nursery?!

[SaraG3018]

Hi all. I've got an 18mo DD who is just, a firecracker. She's always called a happy baby by everyone, and she is, but she's also absolutely savage and insane. Everything is a delight and a game and a reason to get overexcited.

Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much but nursery have now put her on a behaviour plan! I never heard of such a thing.

When she started to be like this around 12-14mo we used to firmly tell her not to, remove her from the situation or toy or person, but not over labour the point so as not to give her attention over it. She loves the attention. We also got given a sticker chart and a set of laminated cards with red stop signs or happy or sad faces etc to help her identify her feelings or to know when to stop.

I know all toddlers can get this way but my older DD who's now 6 was never this bad. She's now on a behaviour plan where the nursery tries to track any triggers or particular people but they're not spotting any pattern. They ring us almost daily now with something she's done, and mostly she's not hurting other kids though there have been a couple of occasions of pushing or pulling. She knows how to say sorry and does it well, so understands the concepts of no or kind hands. But the thing is, for her, it's never a tantrum or upset or malicious behaviour it's the opposite- she's just happy and overexcited and misplaces the energy. She doesn't realise when she could hurt someone, she just has this thrilled look in her eye like it's all play.

At this point I genuinely feel like my little happy girl might be the first ever baby to get expelled from a nursery! I half feel indignant because, why are the nursery staff ringing me to check if I've been using the sticker chart properly when I'm at work... she's literally a 1 year old baby who can't speak yet. She's just about starting to pick up single words now. On the other hand, I know she's more demanding than my first and handsy and I'm starting to feel like a bad mum. But I literally don't know what else I can do? If I tell her off even more she just wiggles away or gets happier from the attention and eye contact. She's kind of feral but we love it and think it's just her baby nature and will grow out of it. But is there something I'm missing? Could we be trying something else? Any advice much appreciated! At this daily rate I'm sure they're going to tell us they can't handle her and we need to leave soon!

I would say look for another nursery, a sticker chart for a 18 month old child is completely pointless. I think the recommended age for them is around 3/4 years old. The fact that the nursery thinks that this is an appropriate reward for a child that age is enough to be concerning.

Then ringing you up at work for those behaviours?

It sounds like they don't want her there.

Edit to add: you could contact your health visitor to do a early developmental review , they can be done at any age, or just explain the concerns about her behaviour. They may even liaise with nursery. Then you have a professional opinion on whether her behavior is an issue or not

any nursery who thinks a sticker chart would work on an 18 month old has no credibility.

anyway op just to reassure you that when I was a baby I was expelled from nursery for biting. i grew up to be a normal, polite, non-violent adult who functions perfectly well in society. No run-ins with the law yet!

A sticker chart for a 1 year old?! They don’t sound like they have a clue!

I paid a lot of money for my baby to be looked after safely in a nursery while I worked. I would not have taken kindly to him being battered by a savage handsy firecracker whose parents thought it was all a jolly jape.

Yes I have heard of this too, but it's always been hearing it second hand, so I don't know how common it actually is to "expel" younger ones, but from what you say, it does happen-I guess nurseries have different rules?

I agree with those posters saying that you need to work with the nursery to be consistent in your approach.
It does sound as though you don't think the behaviour is that serious... do you think the nursery is over reacting? As others have said, it sounds like you think its a bit of a joke.
By 'handsy' do you mean hitting? Pulling hair and throwing things whether at home or in a setting shouldn't just be dismissed as ok or a bit 'feral'...
When children lash out, its a way if communicating something...fear, worry, frustration, being over stimulated etc. It sounds as though nursery are trying to figure out what could be triggering your dd, by doing something like an ABC chart.
A - antecedent
B - behaviour
C - consequence
...to try to ascertain a pattern and help support your child.
I agree 18months seems very young for a sticker chart, but maybe they have seen her respond to it at nursery.
It does sound like they want to support your dd, and work with you...but if you don't agree with their approach, then maybe look elsewhere.

How would you feel if your Dd was coming home from nursery with scratches or bruises from someone else’s feral ‘firecracker’ kid?

You probably wouldn’t find the same behaviour quite so endearing.

Time to take this seriously and work with nursery to reinforce consistent boundaries.

Yeah op you need to clarify what's actually happening here. Is your child hurting others?

I think your comment ‘she’s kind of feral and we love it’ is quite telling. If nursery have observed these behaviours then there could be a concern regarding her development.
Feral implies that an animal has not been taught / trained / learned to show expected behaviours at specific stages of development. Babies generally develop these skills through good modelling of them by the adults around them. If a child fails to make good progress developmentally it’s time to call in professional help.

Next door neighbours child is like this - except they blame the behaviour on ADHD. (She's 3, they said she had ADHD from 2 and a half). It's probably down to their parenting style, they never correct bad behaviour, dad winds the kid up all day and the child goes to bed when they do, from around 10.30-11pm onwards. The girl runs and screams from the moment she wakes up until bedtime and wants her parents attention constantly. I hear everything through the bloomin walls.

I feel sorry for the school and the teachers when she goes next year. They've a wild 'firecracker' on their hands for sure, doubt they will think she's cute and funny and I actually feel sorry for the little girl too, she's going to have a hard time of it at school, not understanding rules on behaviour. OP, you're probably doing your little one a disservice for the future.

My childminder has “expelled” a 9 year old and a I think 5-6 year old over the last couple of years and there was a girl years ago too about 8-9.

All on behavioural grounds - being rude and disruptive. She has a policy all parents sign and it’s tailored for all age groups as to the expectations and if kids don’t respect the code of conduct there is 3 stages

1 - informal chat with parents documented followed by review period if all ok no further action

2 - if another incident then child is removed from the setting for 1 week (to reflect and to govern some breathing space) meeting with parents prior to returning to discuss plan going forward

3 - 3rd serious incident - a conversation takes place as to whether the behavioural breach warrants the childminder terminating the contract

To be honest if I was a childminder in an area where childcare is heavily in demand I wouldn’t tolerate kids who didn’t behave and if I had a huge waiting list - like mine does and most of the nurseries round here - why would people tolerate it? I know I wouldn’t!!!!

My childminder has kids who are babies on her waiting list for when they start school for wraparound care now. She’s well respected and does a great job and she and other CMs and nursery workers and owners don’t have to tolerate this.

Sorry, but I couldn't help laughing at the idea of a baby being expelled! 🤭 The Bad Baby of the borough! Are they going to put her in a little baby jail? 🥹

Labels do not help - they are for parcels not children.

A sticker chart really only works for age 4 onward

either work alongside the nursery or find a more experienced staffed one

You describe your child as savage, feral, handsy (the latter is really glazing over the fact she’s touching other kids!)

You are getting calls because the nursery are concerned for the other kids.

I don’t know what the answer is but I can tell you for certain that minimising the problem isn’t it.

It’s good that they’re actively addressing the behaviour with her imo. It’s not good behaviour and you shouldnt be letting her do it at home

I do agree with previous posters that it's important that she's not hurting others.

On the other hand, it could just be that this nursery isn't the right one for her. They vary so much. My DC started at a quiet nursery where they found fault with him in a way that I thought was ridiculous and unfair, then he changed to a different setting that was more lively and boisterous where he thrived.

It’s probably more to ensure op responds appropriately to the behaviour, rather than the child!
She doesn’t seem to be, currently, because she “loves” it.

Unfortunately for these children, they tend to learn when they encounter children they try their behaviour on and find that they get a sudden and sharp response from. In my experience, the parents of the adorably handsy toddlers then get all upset because another child dared to upset their precious.

OP, I'd address it before your child finds themself getting handsy with a child who isn't going to take it.

You sound a bit dismissive of the problem. I've been there with a similar child, but she was hurting her siblings, and I did NOT feel relaxed about it. You probably need to start imagining that the kids she's been hurting are your own, e.g. a new born baby. Would this feral behaviour still seem cute to you?

I'm shocked at all the advice being thrown about when the OP has been very vague, not to say minimising, about what her DD actually does, apart from saying it is tolerated at home.

This!

Exactly.
Another case of parents thinking their feral child is to be indulged.
Like this at 18 months? The behaviour needs to be sorted now, by the parents.

Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much @SaraG3018

You don't mind her throwing toys (at people ?) and pulling hair? And whatever "handsy" means - pinching, hitting, slapping?

Why don't you mind your child hurting others? This sounds extremely selfish and difficult for the nursery to try and manage.

Your DD is not the only child there, they have to protect other children from her.

Are you are the sticker chart isn't for your behaviour as parents? Sounds like nursery are desperate and don't know what else to do to get you to teach your DD appropriate behaviour around other children.

Have you seen the level of upset she is causing to other children? I bet no nursery would be going in that direction if there weren’t some massive red flags, they deal with toddlers that push, pull and bite in a regular basis after all.

It may be safer for other children for her to be removed until she develops more empathy around 3. You describe her as feral yourself, what makes you think other children parents would like to have her around hurting their children?

I’m going back 10 yrs or so but nurseries (private or not) are not allowed to ‘expel’ a child. Ofsted forbid it. All a nursery can do is ask a parent to keep a child at home whilst funding is sought to pay for one to one shadowing (ie an extra staff member) a child who can be unpredictable and is in danger of hurting another child.