First ever baby to be expelled from nursery?!

[SaraG3018]

Hi all. I've got an 18mo DD who is just, a firecracker. She's always called a happy baby by everyone, and she is, but she's also absolutely savage and insane. Everything is a delight and a game and a reason to get overexcited.

Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much but nursery have now put her on a behaviour plan! I never heard of such a thing.

When she started to be like this around 12-14mo we used to firmly tell her not to, remove her from the situation or toy or person, but not over labour the point so as not to give her attention over it. She loves the attention. We also got given a sticker chart and a set of laminated cards with red stop signs or happy or sad faces etc to help her identify her feelings or to know when to stop.

I know all toddlers can get this way but my older DD who's now 6 was never this bad. She's now on a behaviour plan where the nursery tries to track any triggers or particular people but they're not spotting any pattern. They ring us almost daily now with something she's done, and mostly she's not hurting other kids though there have been a couple of occasions of pushing or pulling. She knows how to say sorry and does it well, so understands the concepts of no or kind hands. But the thing is, for her, it's never a tantrum or upset or malicious behaviour it's the opposite- she's just happy and overexcited and misplaces the energy. She doesn't realise when she could hurt someone, she just has this thrilled look in her eye like it's all play.

At this point I genuinely feel like my little happy girl might be the first ever baby to get expelled from a nursery! I half feel indignant because, why are the nursery staff ringing me to check if I've been using the sticker chart properly when I'm at work... she's literally a 1 year old baby who can't speak yet. She's just about starting to pick up single words now. On the other hand, I know she's more demanding than my first and handsy and I'm starting to feel like a bad mum. But I literally don't know what else I can do? If I tell her off even more she just wiggles away or gets happier from the attention and eye contact. She's kind of feral but we love it and think it's just her baby nature and will grow out of it. But is there something I'm missing? Could we be trying something else? Any advice much appreciated! At this daily rate I'm sure they're going to tell us they can't handle her and we need to leave soon!

Yeh feral, biting, hair pulling, throwing things, likely hurting other children sound awesome! Seriously this is behaviour that needs to be stopped.

don’t get me wrong, she is probably awesome in lots of ways but you can’t dismiss this as awesomeness.

Behaviour is a form of communication. So yes, I agree with the Nursery for putting her on the behaviour plan as it seems your daughter’s behaviour is not within usual expectations for her age and they have a duty to monitor this and also need to work out what she is committed.
Nursery calling you is probably part of their approach to collaboration, though as part of this they should also be phoning others with parental rights.
you don’t say if the plan has established triggers and it would be useful to identify those.
for consistency for your child it would be helpful if you and nursery can agree to an approach to managing her behaviours and response to them. It must be very challenging for a child her age if she finds her behaviour in one environment is seen as endearing and problematic in another.
it may also be helpful if you and nursery use the same behaviour recording chart to identify if similar behaviours are caused by the same trigger

My DN7 was and still is like this. Nursery flagged him up for possible ADHD aged 2. He's very clever and expressive but 'firecracker' is a very accurate description. Constantly being very "handsy" (read: hitting/pulling/snatching) with other children and after the initial consequence, does not seem bothered at all by further attempts to curb his behaviour. His saving grace is that he attends a tiny primary school that his DF and his family attended, they are well thought of as a family so school will not kick him out. My DSIS gets constant phone calls about him. He was a much wanted grand/son and I think that really affected how he was and is parented. He'll get the shock of his life when he goes to secondary school.

Well OP what are you actually doing to fix this behaviour? if you do nothing now how do you think school will be?

you can come up with 'cute''labels to explain and people can blame the nursery all they like this is not normal behaviour

If DD were a DS she wouldn't be getting nearly so much leeway from the posters here. This feral little girl may be happy, but clearly the kids around her aren't. They're the same size as her.

The suggesting (insisting even) on a sticker chart for an 18 month old baby would have made me lose all trust in their competence tbh, OP. I'm with those suggesting you look for a new nursery. Who knows if this is actually what your DD is like or down to their bizarre expectations and practices? But, in any case, they don't know what they're doing.

Are there any Forest nurseries near you? Maybe she would be happier and calmer outside in the fresh air all day

When you say you tell her off she gets happier from the eye contact and attention suggests you’re not being very firm in the telling off and she doesn’t understand it. If you were being firm with her she wouldn’t like it. I’d be nipping this in the bud by being very firm with her in my tone every time she did it. Kids this age are like puppies, neither understand the language and concept of things like “kind hands” but they understand from your tone that you’re not happy with them. They won’t like that reaction from you and will soon learn which behaviour provokes that reaction and stop doing it.

i agree that your language OP of saying you don’t mind it at home, she’s a bit handsy, bit feral, calling her a baby, etc is minimising it and suggests you’re not taking it seriously which is why you have this problem still. If I was a parent of another kid and they were being hurt at nursery I’d be furious.

All I hear is how adorable you find her - really if you’re saying you don’t mind her being “handsy” at home then you must know that you need to start disciplining her there and not with bloody stickers either - ditch those - she’s way too young to bother with that stuff.

You need to be firmer at home and probably move her to get a more experienced setting. are your nursery people really young or rushed off their feet or something? Don’t know why they’re moaning at you down the phone.

You’re honestly not being firm enough, I can read that in your post.

It Mrs across that you think he behaviour is a bit of a joke and funny.

you also say she says sorry and understands snd means it, but at the same time you say she’s a baby who can’t talk yet. It can’t be both.

My first was like this. Same issues with nursery. Child psychologist involved, after 20 minutes they said she was bored, and recommended she moved out of the ‘baby rooms’ into toddler ones. She was about 16 months. They agreed (eventually) and she was much happier.

She’s grown into an amazing woman. Focussed, determined, kind, fun, one of the best humans I know.

This.

Just jumping on to say this pattern of constant phone calls sometimes happens in settings with a policy to not raise potential additional needs with parents (because they aren’t trained to diagnose) but who want parents to raise it with them (so they can ask parents to see a professional). Although at 18 months she would be very young for diagnosis.

I would start outright by asking nursery whether they have ever wondered if your child might have additional needs.

“She's kind of feral but we love it and think it's just her baby nature and will grow out of it“

You might love it but I’m sure the other parents and staff do not!

Work with the nursery. What are you putting in place to address these issues?

18 months is old enough to have some understanding - that's not to say that they have enough impulse control to stop themselves doing it though.

Some 18 months are speaking in sentences, but those that don't are capable of understanding.

It comes across as you think it's rather cute, she has no possible hope of understanding any time soon and the nursery should just tell everyone not to worry because she doesn't mean it, and the other parents will breath a sigh of relief and agree she's rather special and they don't mind a bit.
If that if coming across to the nursery then that is why they're contacting you and that will be why they ask your toddler, not baby, to find another placement ( if they do)

If my child was in a nursery where they couldn't control the risk of another child hitting, biting or getting too " handsy" I'd be relieved they were taking it seriously..So I do think it needs addressing. She may need to be in a smaller setting or one where you know they can supervise her more carefully. Good luck

Do you know when people get a cute little puppy, and they find it really cute and spirited when it growls and nips and pisses on other peoples carpets, so they don't really take training seriously?

Then they end up with a demon no one, including them, wants to be anywhere near?

I have seen this happen in a family member. Her parents were convinced she was just so spirited and funny. She was actually mildly autistic, emotionally neglected/ignored and acting out because there were no boundaries to make her feel safe.

It was 'cute' and everyone else was just being a moaning myrtle...until she hit the teen years and starting hitting and screaming at her mum, and no one else (including her own siblings) wanted to be anywhere near her.

Then it very much became their problem.

I suggest you start taking her behaviour very seriously op. Perhaps she doesn't have sn, and is just the type of child who desperately needs boundaries, but you have to start recognising that this behaviour isn't adorable, it is a signal of unmet needs. And the nursery know this.

Eesh. My DD had a girl in her group for about 6 months who was a pusher, thrower and biter. Once I had to take her for a jab because a bite had broken her skin. Trying to drop her off in the morning to go to work was torture because she was terrified, and every other day was a phone call to tell me something else had happened.
YOU might think it's cute to be "feral" but when I was paying over £1000 a month and struggling to keep on top of work because of the worry, I can assure you, no one else thinks it's cute.
Maybe a different nursery setting would be better, maybe your kid just needs boundaries, but stop downplaying it as "cute" and find some empathy for the wider impact of their behaviour.

Can you give a mixed age group setting. My 14 month old is a lot like this. We do our best at home because I don't like being bitten, but he doesn't do it at nursery. Our nursery group is 0-4. The babies are well protected from the toddlers, but the toddler are going to have free rein to whack DS if he's an arsehole. I think that's probably the best learning method not to bite someone bigger than you!

This. 18m isn't really a "baby" its a toddler. "Feral" isn't s good/cute description of a toddler. These years are critical for teaching boundaries, its at this age you teach obedience/good behaviour, when they are young enough to manage.

Kids do not "grow out of" wild behaviour.

It sounds like you’re not following the same method as nursery. There’s nothing lovable about being feral. For your daughter’s sake, get a grip on her behaviour now.

See if you can find a local parenting class aimed at parents with children that age and see if you can get support.

Are the nursery staff very young and inexperienced?

I agree with the vast majority of posters that you seem to be minimising this. You say you don’t mind at home, but how you react at home is key to resolving these issues.

My middle son was a demon child. Everywhere he shouldn’t be, constantly pushing boundaries (fortunately never violent). We had to warn teachers to take the hard line with him immediately every time. One time they were doing a PE lesson and he did a silly dance that made everyone laugh. The teacher said she laughed too because it was funny. But then he wouldn’t stop doing it. I had to tell her that unfortunately you just can’t laugh the first time because he doesn’t get why he’s being told off the second time. He needed consistency with the rules. We had some fun times during the school years for boundary pushing (he’s ADHD and possibly ASD) but he’s grown up into a decent young man. We kept the behaviour in check by firmly backing up the school and teachers, and keeping expectations consistent at home and school. It’s been a long slog, but I can assure you if you don’t deal with this now, it will be an even longer slog for you.

Exactly @Tillow4ever . Some children really need those boundaries and it sounds like you did a fantastic job.

I bet some ill informed people assumed your ds 'just grew out of it'. They don't see or understand the constant work that takes at home and at school.

No child ever just magically grows out of negative behaviour. They are responding to a boundary, whether the parents have set it on purpose or without realising.

If your older child wasn’t like this then you know it isn’t normal for toddlers to regularly hurt other children. By handsy do you mean hurting people? Your entire post excuses her behaviour. You say you don’t mind her bad behaviour much at home so your daughter thinks it’s normal to do this as nursery. She’s hurting other children.