First ever baby to be expelled from nursery?!

[SaraG3018]

Hi all. I've got an 18mo DD who is just, a firecracker. She's always called a happy baby by everyone, and she is, but she's also absolutely savage and insane. Everything is a delight and a game and a reason to get overexcited.

Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much but nursery have now put her on a behaviour plan! I never heard of such a thing.

When she started to be like this around 12-14mo we used to firmly tell her not to, remove her from the situation or toy or person, but not over labour the point so as not to give her attention over it. She loves the attention. We also got given a sticker chart and a set of laminated cards with red stop signs or happy or sad faces etc to help her identify her feelings or to know when to stop.

I know all toddlers can get this way but my older DD who's now 6 was never this bad. She's now on a behaviour plan where the nursery tries to track any triggers or particular people but they're not spotting any pattern. They ring us almost daily now with something she's done, and mostly she's not hurting other kids though there have been a couple of occasions of pushing or pulling. She knows how to say sorry and does it well, so understands the concepts of no or kind hands. But the thing is, for her, it's never a tantrum or upset or malicious behaviour it's the opposite- she's just happy and overexcited and misplaces the energy. She doesn't realise when she could hurt someone, she just has this thrilled look in her eye like it's all play.

At this point I genuinely feel like my little happy girl might be the first ever baby to get expelled from a nursery! I half feel indignant because, why are the nursery staff ringing me to check if I've been using the sticker chart properly when I'm at work... she's literally a 1 year old baby who can't speak yet. She's just about starting to pick up single words now. On the other hand, I know she's more demanding than my first and handsy and I'm starting to feel like a bad mum. But I literally don't know what else I can do? If I tell her off even more she just wiggles away or gets happier from the attention and eye contact. She's kind of feral but we love it and think it's just her baby nature and will grow out of it. But is there something I'm missing? Could we be trying something else? Any advice much appreciated! At this daily rate I'm sure they're going to tell us they can't handle her and we need to leave soon!

At that age my approach would be gentle removal and distraction before behaviour escalates so that it doesn't set up a negative cycle. Unfortunately it sounds like it has so there's much work to be done.

I would speak with other nurseries and see what their ethos is, because their approach to your daughter sounds a bit strange to me. In addition there's no point phoning you for something that is within their control during the day, not yours.
You maybe need a smaller nursery, different staff etc....

Is she still in the baby room? At what point do they move up? She might get on better with a move up (or another setting).

I think sticker charts are ridiculous for 18 month olds.

Is she bored? She has an older sibling. With mine that meant the younger ones skipped a stage of toys. While the oldest loved all the things for this age group, it was pointless hanging onto them for his siblings when they could see the more interesting stuff they wanted their hands on.

This could be a factor if she's delighting in the toys at home but playing with rattles and on baby mats at nursery. Maybe the things there aren't holding her attention so she's making her own play in the wrong places.

Just a thought.

While I agree with reinforcement it has to be instant at this stage and I don't think mine would have done much with feelings flash cards at this age, other than as PP suggested, chew them.

I think you need a more positive plan with nursery. I don't see what you are meant to do to address it hours later so the calls are just increasing stress when they could discuss it at pick up.

Are there any outside / forest school nurseries near you? They are great for kids that have a lot of energy to expel.

The thing is pulling hair, pushing and shoving, and being ‘handsy’ isn’t something you should giggle off and not mind. You need to set appropriate expectations with her at home. If she is hitting you or pulling your hair, you need to gently tell her no and move her away. You’re reinforcing behaviour that isn’t socially acceptable and she needs to learn from you how to be gentle. A behaviour plan is usually about getting parents on board with reinforcing better behaviour, so you need to get on board. The nursery may or may not be rubbish, but you aren’t doing her any favours.

Wow that's rude 😂Do you normally speak to people like this?

It's certainly not VERY common for 12-18 month olds to have such unmanageable behaviour that the baby room is regularly calling a parent.

The bit that stood out is that you don’t mind so much when she’s being feral/handsy at home. Now is the time to mind. It might be ‘cute’ and ‘awesome’ at 18 months, but it will be less awesome when she’s 3 and nobody wants her to play with their child because she’s a thug who hurts others with a smile on her face.

Now this is a good idea.

Having re-read your updates I'm also surprised a nursery dealing with this age of children would be surprised sand doesn't stay in the tray. Having worked in nurseries even with older kids you've got to be on that like a hawk and correcting immediately. And even you factor in needing a sweeping brush.

Yes you need to be consistent and firm in your approach but their expectations of what she should be able to do seem mad.

Oh and just about every two year old I worked with scratched at some point deliberate or otherwise. Parents were asked to keep nails short for this reason.

This, and she's a toddler not a baby at 18 months old.
Those up thread are fine then with their kids being pushed, biten or being on the receiving end of 'firecrackers' in their own nurseries I guess.

5 instances of pushing or throwing things in the past 6 months would not normally warrant a behaviour plan or calls home.

This suggests either the nursery are massively exaggerating/over the top or there's some communication missing.

Either way it doesn't sound like the right setting.

And talking of ‘kind hands’ at this age is ludicrous.

You need to say ‘ No!’ very firmly and remove her from whatever/whoever. Every single time.

And praise good behaviour! Every time, too.

@SaraG3018 if she likes books have you heard of this set?

Best Behaviour Series 8 Book Box Set by Elizabeth Verdick and Martine Agassi Board Books for Toddlers Ages 1–4: Amazon.co.uk: Agassi, Martine, Verdick, Elizabeth: 9781802637670: Books

It's tricky at this age as I think they are really too young to understand the consequences, so other than a firm no it's hard to know what to do to correct the behaviour! I can totally get what you mean about it not seeming malicious though. Do you ever say "no that's hurt mummy, sister, friend etc" That might strt to go in?

I’m so glad you wrote this. I an also dealing with a bitey 18 month old. Nothing i do has worked to stop the biting so I am wondering if other people who make it sound so simple are actually experienced with this.

I have managed to get him to stroke instead of hit. But the biting seems to be a deeply engrained comfort-seeking behaviour, I suspect related to breastfeeding.

This. Any decent nursery knows the kid is too young for sticker charts.

BUT it’s a good way of focussing the parents minds on what behaviour they should be reinforcing.

Delulu. Suddenly it is once in a blue moon, handsy rather than fisty. Thrown some sand, pushed a child twice in a year yet she is getting phone calls every day and 20min chats at drop off and pickup. Absolute fantasy, I'll go with the description from the opening OP post. This child is hurting others, get help.

TBH the nursery staff sound frankly clueless if they think sticker charts are going to have any effect at this sort of age. Are any of them actually qualified in early years/whatever they call it?

This all day long. Fast forward 10 years and imagine the posts about teachers at her school not understanding her 'nature'.

Either knuckle down with parenting or pay for it later. Either way the nursery are absolutely correct to pass the ball/child back to you and let it be your problem, not every other child in the nursery.

Change nursery OP and save yourself a lot of stress. If possible send he to a forest school or similar, she will be much happier.

This nursery seems to expect too much from a 18 month old and not have the capacity to deal with it in age appropriate manner.

But if they are biting, they shouldn't be in nursery

Plenty of toddlers have been expelled from nursery because staff felt 'it wasn't meeting their needs'. I imagine many of these were later found to have additional needs.

When staff who are experienced with this age group are telling you that your child is displaying unusual behaviour, I'd listen instead of laughing it off.

In that case might a childminder with less kids be better? I’m not sure how ratios work these days. She’s maybe overwhelmed by the setting.

Wow! It sounds like you got this though and are approaching this well. I had a similar thing with my son at 2.5 at pre school. He’s always been very tall and big for his age. Preschool put him on report ;) so similar thing. I had a chat with them about behaviour and consequences ie if other toddlers behaved in the same with, with the same intention that was ok but because he was bigger the consequences would be different and that wasn’t ok? I was quite stressed at the time (only child, first experience of anything like this) but I look back now and laugh. He’s a great man and very gentle and caring (still huge) and wears this early ridiculous intervention like a badge of honour. Sounds like you are doing well! These environments are suited to the average not those who sit outside that, strap in for the ride through the education system, we had to go private after year 3 as he was so not the average and all state school could offer was to put him up a year!

I too wonder if the behaviour chart / sticker business is more aimed at engaging OP with the need to start doing more, more regularly, to encourage better behaviour.

It's much easier to instill good social habits while very young rather than having to correct bad ones later on. Like puppies!

It feels like the nursery staff are pushing for more engagement from you OP. I mean maybe you are fully engaging, but not showing it well. Try not to laugh about her 'firecracker' funny ways at all when they're talking to you and take it all very seriously. They may then stop pushing as hard. It's 99% of the battle getting parents onside when it comes to behaviour at school/nursery. Once they feel you're on the same page as them i recon the long chats will ease up.

New nursery! Maybe one that offers loads of outdoors play to channel all her energy. A forest school would be a good idea.

I imagine the biggest issue is that other parents don’t want your child to be around their children. I don’t blame them.

The nursery need to maintain numbers and if there is a “handsy” child whose behaviour is condoned by the parents they know it will impact on demand for their business.

As a former EY SENDCO, working across a number of EY settings including day nurseries, it doesn't sound to me as if anyone involved with this child is managing her behaviour well.
There is no point at all in using a sticker chart with a child under 2, she hasn't got the capacity to understand the longterm concept. Consequences for hurtful behaviour should be in the moment, simply removing her to a quiet place (I would use a playpen at home) and giving no attention for a short time, after a sharp "No".
I expect she will grow out of this phase but she needs to know that hurting others isn't acceptable, it's not cute or babyish, it's wrong and she needs to be taught that, otherwise as she grows bigger, she will just get wilder and more savage.

Every adult involved with this child needs to be in agreement about how to modify this behaviour, so you need a meeting with the nursery, ask to involve the SENDCO, agree a strategy and a way forward and ensure that everyone sticks to it. Nursery don't need to keep ringing you at work, they should give you a quick catchup when you collect her daily.You might need to look for a different Nursery,better able to meet DD's needs.