Am I unreasonable to want my daughter playing downstairs with grandad?

[Lalaland2020]

Am a weird for feeling uncomfortable with my 6 year old daughter being alone upstairs in the bedroom with her grandad (my father in law - my dad isn’t around). My in laws keep the kids toys upstairs in the bedrooms, so she often goes up alone with him there (grandma is usually downstairs in the kitchen or with my son). I have asked my husband to bring the toys downstairs so they can play around other family members, but he says there isn’t an issue with her going upstairs to play and she asks to go up. I came home today to her and grandad being upstairs in her room with the door closed whilst my husband, grandma and my son were downstairs playing in the front room. When I asked my daughter to come down she said that they were on her bed with the iPad. I’ve sad to my husband that I’m not comfortable with this, but he said I’m making it weird and making my daughter feel bad. Am I a freak for feeling like this?!

Thank you. Yes, it may be rare, but I don't think we can be blinkered and say it doesn't happen.
We 'expect' that men are the main perpetrators, but that isn't always the case sadly, as rare as it may be.
Anyone who shuts themselves in a room with a child, away from everyone else and doesn't think anything about it, is undoubtedly shady and everything should be done to stop this and protect the child.

East Asia. Filial Piety I think they call it - the idea that parents, grandparents, and older people should be treated with honour and respect

umm that is a dangerous cultural belief if its applied without question or thought.

@Lalaland2020 , there's quite a difference in culture. I was reluctant to ask because it might derail the thread.

XP's parents were from a SE Asian (RC) country and i got the impression that in a family, the mother would side with the father no matter what.
Basically, if your child was SAed, you'd not leave your husband, and your child would be expected to show deference to his/her father.

(I am basing my experience on only one family, but as a woman who was hoping to get married and have children, I could not contemplate having children in that setup. )

@godmum56 , it won't be every family but it was in my experience.

You left out one of the most salient parts. It's not just "alone in a bedroom," It's alone in a bedroom, with the door SHUT. Not only that, they areon the bed, and they are well away from all the other family members they should be seeing during the visit. And not only those things, the grandfather doesn't take his grandson into a bedroom, close the door, and lie on the bed with him, does he? Sorry, but Grandad is dodgy as fuck.

I realise that people are less suspicious of women in general and I’m sure that’s a problem to children who are abused by those women who are actually abusers, but in this thread where there is specific behaviour that is concerning, both the “not all men” and the “but women do it too” “arguments” are at the very least a pointless deflection from helping the OP decide what to do, which is why she posted.

Thats not to take away from your own experience. Just to say that it’s off topic here, which is probably why some posters may seem less than supportive to you.

yes that's why I said "applied without question or thought"

I’d want to get evidence to not ruin her life. If she cannot control the child being shut in a room with her grandpa (because child’s dad might take her there without permission) then this would at least let her see what was going on in that room… why would it ruin her life??

I agree. It's as if divorcing the bastard would be far worse than protecting your own child.

I'm (white British but) from a similar sort of background. I wasn't SAed but my father was a bully. I was bullied pretty much daily. My mother saw it happening and never said anything AFAIK. I used to dread going home from school.

I was the problem not him.

In OP's situation, if it was grandma taking the child upstairs to play, and closing the door, I'd find it suspicious, but the grandfather doing it is as dodgy as hell.

Maybe my experience has coloured my opinion, but the 'in our culture' is usually an excuse for non-standard behaviour.

Because you’ve allowed it to happen to get evidence rather than preventing it happening by further letting it continue to see if you can prove it.
Being SA completely ruins your life

Why would being sexually abused ruin your life? Is that your question?

What a horribly obnoxious question. It certainly didn't ruin mine but that doesn't mean I have any want to go around making those who have been hugely impacted by these traumatic experiences to feel shit about it.

Is your paedophile grandfather still alive?

Sorry but if you don’t trust him alone with he’d,why the hell are you even allowing him around her at all? Weird.

No he isn't. Passed away a couple of years ago with all his loving family around him. Unfortunately I couldn't be there for that or the funeral.
I was the youngest grandchild and by the time I was old enough to have a proper understanding of things he was housebound with dementia so no longer a risk to anyone.

Unfortunately it’s extremely hard for the OP to actually enforce the rule since her DH is against her. She’s already attempted to stop it from happening, had massive rows about it, and been ignored and overruled. The DH has now said that he will take the children to their GP’s house. If they prevent her from joining those visits then she’s lost the ability to intervene entirely. Divorce obviously makes her power even more limited.

i think acting nice but planting a camera is a good approach, given that she may not be able to change the situation without more substantial evidence.

That is good thank you, but it does not say, and nothing like this I have seen so far says, that it is very likely one of the trusted adults in your world ( older brother, cousin, father, step father, grandfather, nursery worker, baby sitter, teacher, or mother etc who will touch you with a bad touch.

Also that they might trick you into thinking it is good, or your fault through the child’s body’s involuntary responses.

How can you tell a child these things without terrifying them and making them lose trust?

That's a good question, actually. I would always advise that if it feels wrong (no matter who is doing it) that the child needs to tell until someone believes.

There's the case where the heir to the Dupont's fortune was molesting his daughter and she went to her grandmother saying that she didn't want her dad to be touching her anymore. The details are horrific, but the fact that she could go to her grandmother and say that so plainly shows that it can be done.

So in that case, I would (non threatening) say the child, "There's no secrets if someone anyone is touching you (gestures at body parts). If you feel uncomfortable, come to me."

I'd definitely double down on the body belonging to the child, no matter who's touching them. They have permission to behave badly if same.

But yeah, I think that's a task for the OP to do, especially if she suspects dodginess.

But during the many years this paedophile groped his granddaughter…. You - he was not suffering from dementia.

Sickening man.

I don’t like the sound of this,when you said the door is shut,a big no I’m afraid.have a little roundabout chat to your daughter.

@Emilesgran
I wasn't trying to derail the thread.
I was responding to a question further up, where someone asked if it would it be the same if the roles were reversed and it was a grandmother and grandson. I felt it was a valid point. But thanks for commenting.

Trust your instincts. In your culture, the parent of this daughter's culture, it is not appropriate for men to seek to be alone with a female child, away from the family, with the door closed. It just isn't. Ask any sane individual and they will give you the same answer. Your intuition should be trusted. And children should never be asked to keep secrets from their parents. If they object, you need to wonder why. Why are the kids not both treated to this individual attention? It is unsettling. Sorry you are going through this, and I hope there is nothing wrong. But you are NOT being a psycho..you're being a good mum.

What is YANBU an abbreviation for please? New here and do not know what half of them mean

www.mumsnet.com/info/acronyms @Pisceanqueen

YABU - You are being unreasonable
YANBU - You are not being unreasonable

haven't you read th posts? Her husband is not on the same page