Am I unreasonable to want my daughter playing downstairs with grandad?

[Lalaland2020]

Am a weird for feeling uncomfortable with my 6 year old daughter being alone upstairs in the bedroom with her grandad (my father in law - my dad isn’t around). My in laws keep the kids toys upstairs in the bedrooms, so she often goes up alone with him there (grandma is usually downstairs in the kitchen or with my son). I have asked my husband to bring the toys downstairs so they can play around other family members, but he says there isn’t an issue with her going upstairs to play and she asks to go up. I came home today to her and grandad being upstairs in her room with the door closed whilst my husband, grandma and my son were downstairs playing in the front room. When I asked my daughter to come down she said that they were on her bed with the iPad. I’ve sad to my husband that I’m not comfortable with this, but he said I’m making it weird and making my daughter feel bad. Am I a freak for feeling like this?!

Having worked in legal safeguarding field, the posters suggesting blowing up the marriage and then insisting on supervised time may not realise that courts would be very unlikely to order supervised time based on current evidence.

even if courts said that father was not to take children to grandparents or not let child be unsupervised there, the father would be able to breach that order without the mother knowing.

i think the behaviours are extremely concerning but the best thing OP can do is to ensure herself that grandpa is not alone with daughter, by inserting herself in the situation. Now that time will only happen at ILs house, and as it doesn’t seem she can reason/force grandpa to stay downstairs with daughter (as DH and grandma don’t support it), then mum is up and down the stairs every few minutes, and staying as long as possible in between. Door stays open. If she pops downstairs and door closes again, that is cue to stay upstairs. Bring a new toy/game to ILs and tell daughter you want to play the game/toy with her (grandpa can join). Act all sweet and nice to grandpa/in front of DH - you don’t want to be so obvious that DH then insists on taking child alone.

also, make sure to teach daughter protective behaviours but still, responsibility to protect is on the parent and not on the child to self-protect.

shit situation.

This is really concerning, especially with the attention he’s showing your daughter, the closed door and the actually being in bed, I’d wonder if it’s worth talking to some professionals who could maybe have a chat with her just to establish nothing has (yet) happened.

Alll of this 😢

OP has to be careful here due to her DH’s strong reaction.

“unless he's lived under a rock ,he's knows it's not a good idea to be alone in a bedroom with a child ..why would he choose to put himself in that situation...unless..”

This is ridiculous- a grandad and granddaughter being alone together isn’t a good idea?! It’s completely reasonable that both him and the husband don’t think there’s anything weird about this if it’s all innocent. They’re family. What about the millions of grandparents that provide childcare every single day which may regularly give the grandad an opportunity to be alone in a bedroom with a child?

I am not saying I don’t think this particular situation doesn’t potentially sound a bit dodgy, I do think it sounds strange and I do think the mother needs to override her husband and trust her gut. However to blankly assume that all grandads know they shouldn’t be alone in a bedroom with their grandchild and are constantly being vigilant about how it looks, what people might think etc. I think is totally inaccurate. Most people aren’t constantly thinking “does this make me look like a peado??” Many are just enjoying time with their grandkids without a second thought.

I do sympathise with the husband here, while I think the OP needs to do what’s best for her dd and trust her gut, that unfortunately isn’t going to be that easy. I guarantee anyone on this thread with a close relationship with their own dad, who could say there’s no way they could abuse a child, would be at least a bit offended if their partner suggested they think they might be a peado. I’d try to be as sensitive as possible when talking to your husband about it OP, but yes 100% in this situation I think the kids should be playing downstairs.

Trust your gut on this Op. Its screaming at you for a valid reason. I wouldn't be happy about this either. Your husband needs a reality check and fast. It is very strange how its always upstairs on the bed with the door shut. This is grooming at the very least .

I never left my children alone with my own father, where children are concerned its better to be safe than sorry. You trust yourself, everyone else should have at least a question mark in your mind around your children. Because while my father did nothing to me, as grandparents, cognitive abilities decline with age and every elderly man I've ever met who's had dementia has been a pervert.

Omg this update no no no no no no no. PERIOD.

put your foot down and down your DH this thread.

I wouldn’t give a shit who was offended. Never alone with any males period.

if you can’t trust your husband to stick to that then she doesn’t go.

When you had children, how old was your father?

I had my children later ,so he was in his early 70s when my first child was born.

@IAgreeOP

Firstly men are something like x98 more likely to sexually offend than a woman. So that's not a comparable example.

I find that quite offensive and dismissive.
If you'd read my above posts, it happened to me, twice, both times the perpetrator was female.
Let's not overlook the fact that there are some sick females out there. And not just ones that are letting themselves be coerced by men. They have the perfect opportunity, as they are the ones who are more likely to care for children alone, as no-one would ever suspect.
Women are supposed to be nurturing and loving, which is why they can get away with it. We can't assume "lovely old granny" would never do something like that, just as we can't assume "the lovely gentleman" wouldn't!

Firstly not every bloody man is a paedo
Unfortunately a significant minority are.

Disturbing research into the extent of child sexual abuse has found almost one in six Australian men have sexual feelings towards children and teenagers, and almost one in 10 acknowledge having committed child sexual offences, despite few being caught.

www.humanrights.unsw.edu.au/news/shocking-number-australian-men-sexually-attracted-children-and-teens

also, make sure to teach daughter protective behaviours but still, responsibility to protect is on the parent and not on the child to self-protect

This is so important. The little girl may well enjoy being singled out for this special attention and adoration, and she might easily collude with him in getting upstairs alone with him. That is completely natural and why little children are so easy to abuse.

The other protection you can give her, together with her brother, is very special cosy fun times with you. And make sure nothing is giving her poor self esteem.

You need to start documentation of all this. Divorce is a real possibility. Try to get text message exchange with your husband about it. This will prove to a court that he is a safeguarding risk as much as your father in law is. Ask you husband why its always your daughter upstairs with a closed door around the grandad. Try to get as much detail as possible in these messages. Then you've got the ducks in a row needed for cafcass and social services during Divorce proceedings to make sure they never get unsupervised contact

No no no and absolutely NO. not ok. Just read your posts out to my dp and he also said a big fat NO from him. He said the closed door bit esp. alarmed him

It is awful that this happened to you and I am very sorry. What a hideous betrayal that we all so wrongly imagine just could never happen.

I remember seeing a harrowing real-life drama documentary about a little girl abused by both her father or step father and her mother. ( She was also sold out to lorry drivers. Eventually, she escaped by taxi to a special care home she knew about.)

I also remember hearing with absolute sickening shock that, in the Rwanda genocide, women ( possibly even nuns) were directing rapes of little girls.

And remember Fred West’s wife helping him.

Abuse from women may increase as now they can sell abuse images for an income.
There were some female nursery workers doing that. Also this is rife in some parts of the world where people are very poor.

But about 91% of child sexual abuse is by males, and most of the victims (not all by any means) are girls. Grandfathers are absolutely among those carrying it out.

In the OP’s house it is the grandfather who is a possible concern.

Of course he may well be innocent but, even so, the little girl is being made accustomed to thinking going up alone in a bedroom is fine which is not good for her developing sense of self protection. The grandfather is at the very least being very thicked skinned.

What an interesting point.

The thing that would bother me is the door being closed. Toys kept in the bedroom could be so the adults have a tidier home but that doesnt apply to an ipad. Try to get husband on side with screens must be in the living room as when she's a teenager you will need to be aware of what she is looking at. And bedroom doors are not closed for the same reason.

Why would you wait to get evidence of her being assaulted and ruin her life. That’s so grim

This.

This would worry me too OP. He is not maintaining appropriate boundaries. There is no need for them to be alone together like this. If they have a close relationship, they could hang out anywhere else, in the garden, living room etc.

That said, it doesn't mean he's up to something.

It's a little bit like when men walk behind a woman without going round, crossing the street etc. They might not mean anything by it but it is a slightly arogant type of unthinking.

OP, continue to repeat with your child(ren) "Good touch" and "bad touch" if your husband is insisting to take them to the house alone.

There are some good scripts here and a recommended video

I am strongly recommending that you do this with both children, from time to time.

@ScrollingLeavesthank you for your helpful post. As a CSA survivor myself, I remember seeing rhat docudrama years ago and it had a powerful effect on me. Can you remember what it was called (when it was made/what channel etc). I've been trying to remember!

Re OP - you are 100% correct to tell your H & inlaws that your Dd needs to be in the main area & not alone with any adult on a bed playing with an iPad. Clearly thay are offended (too bad) but it might be easier to sell it as 'we are modelling safe behaviour for all adults as she gets older'. I was also abused by a family member with family in the house. You cannot be too careful re this.

There are drugs that have a side-effect of removing inhibitions and they can lead to excessive gambling and hypersexuality.

Medications Linked to Hypersexuality
Dopamine Agonists: These drugs are often used to treat conditions like Parkinson's disease and can increase sexual desire. Examples include:
Pramipexole
Ropinirole
Cabergoline

Antidepressants: Some selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) can have paradoxical effects, leading to increased sexual behavior in some individuals. Notable examples include:
Bupropion (known for its pro-sexual effects)
Trazodone

Antipsychotics: Certain antipsychotic medications may also contribute to hypersexuality, including:
Clozapine
Quetiapine
Olanzapine

Recreational Drugs: Substances like alcohol, cocaine, and amphetamines can significantly enhance libido and lead to hypersexual behaviors. These drugs affect the brain's reward pathways, particularly dopamine, which is crucial for pleasure and reward.

Mechanisms of Action
Dopamine: Increased dopamine activity is often associated with heightened sexual desire. Medications that enhance dopamine transmission can lead to compulsive sexual behaviors.

Serotonin: The relationship between serotonin levels and sexual behavior is complex; lower serotonin levels can lead to increased sexual activity, while higher levels may suppress it.

Norepinephrine: This neurotransmitter is involved in arousal and can also influence sexual behavior, particularly through stimulant drug use.

Sources:
Drugs That Cause Hypersexuality and Other Reproductive System Issues
Pharmacological Agents Linked to Hypersexuality

I’m very sorry that happened to you. I don’t think anyone thinks that a woman could never abuse a child. But come on, it’s SO rare, compared to the risk that men pose. I understand that if it’s happened to you you are obviously going to feel more strongly about this issue but it can’t be denied that what happened to you was incredibly rare. More than 96% of CSA offenders are men

i will add that my in laws weren’t born in the UK and that it is frowned upon to question or disagree with elders, so I think there is a cultural issue too that I’m dealing with.
Is the culture of where they are from markedly different to western culture?