To be infuriated with social services…

[QuaintLilacBee]

To cut a long story short, my son moved out and went to live with dad, grandma, 2 aunties, aunties boyfriend and a newborn last year. This is not a court ordered arrangement, no social services involvement etc. Child wanted to live with dad and as he has parental responsibility he is allowed by law to keep him and not return him if he doesn’t want to. Dad refuses any contact with me and grandma has taken over - she arranges visits with me, she takes care of him whilst dad works etc. she removed him from the school he was at since pre-school with me, and changed his school.

Recently she took him out of school and is ‘home educating’. After speaking to my child he’s told me that he does no form of education whatsoever. When I text to see him, she often tells me he’s ’still In bed’ at 11 and 12 in the afternoon. He comes to visit me looking exhausted and dishevelled, tells me he’s been awake until 2am on the PlayStation. He spends his entire life on games and has no education. Dad doesn’t bother with him. I weighed him as I noticed he had gained considerable weight since moving there, he now weighs 66kg at just 9 years old, which is morbidly obese. Any time I collect him, he’s got multiple bags of sweets and McDonald’s, so it’s clear why he’s this weight. They have no control over him, let him do anything, stay up all night, eat junk, swear, play violent games.

During the last visit to me, his little brother dropped a teddy behind someone’s fence. My eldest proceeded to kick and punch at the fence to get it open. I told him to stop as he was going to break it and get me into trouble, and to instead knock on the door and ask politely for access. His response was to tell me to ‘shut the f* up’. I asked gran to collect him and told her what he had said and she started laughing.

I rang ss last week as I’m concerned for his weight and education. My mum also rang them as she’s recently seen him herself and is concerned about him in their care. They said they have sent a letter to dad to offer ‘optional support’ and contacted the education board to do a check. Yesterday they called me back after I emailed them further evidence of his junk diet and gaming. She told me it had all been screened and allegedly does not require social services intervention. I am absolutely raging beyond belief.

I can’t keep him myself when he comes here, as he will just run away back to dads, and dad can keep him and not return him once again. He prefers living with dad as there’s no rules or restrictions and he can do whatever the hell he wants.

Im concerned for his health, he is very clearly at high risk for diabetes, heart issues amongst other things. He’s got no future job prospects or chance of any GCSE’s when he does no learning. His attitude and behaviour is uncontrollable. There’s essentially no hope for his future while he’s living there. Police have refused to do a welfare check on the child on 2 ocassions. He does not see a GP, go to school etc so there’s nobody in a safeguarding position to check on him at all. His last school even refused to give information to me about why he was removed, despite me having PR and legal right to his education records. I have been dismissed, refused information on my own child, and treated appallingly throughout this whole saga. He had terrible attendance at the school he went to with me, because gran was having him 3 nights per week at that point and would often keep him off because ‘he didn’t want to go in’. The school had also refused to allow me to collect him and handed him to grandma instead who has no legal rights. My child told me when he first moved out he ‘wasn’t allowed’ to talk to me. I walked round the whole of town with my 3 year old, going to every school near his home to find him. Eventually I found what school he was at, I called them, they confirmed he went there so I walked up to see him. The school had called GRANDMA and had her waiting in reception when I arrived, forced me to have a meeting with her and refused me to see my son, all the while dad has no involvement in any of this. I am utterly appalled at how I’ve been treated by every single agency. My child was never took off me, I have no issues with drink or drugs, never hit him, never emotionally abused him etc, no cause for concerns at my house. Just a strict routine of bed time at 8pm, no fizzy drinks, no junk food, must attend school etc and apparently this is bad parenting on my behalf to the point I’ve been treated like a criminal.

sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this off my chest.

While what you’ve said sounds concerning, his poor diet and sleep doesn’t meet the threshold for SS involvement. I suppose it could warrant early intervention or even a child in need plan, but both of those are consent based so if dad doesn’t engage or refuses support the case would be closed.

What have your LA said about his home ed provision? I would speak to them about that. If his education at home isn’t suitable he can be made to go back to school.

Can you afford legal advice?

Home education board are due to go out and assess, they haven’t seen him as of yet so I won’t know anything about this until they have done. I don’t understand how a 9 year old being 10 stone is considered normal.

I would have a word with the LA before they go out so they’ve got the full picture of whats really going on.

Does his old school have any concerns?

SS said they contacted his old school and they agreed with me that there were concerns surrounding his weight.

I also have a younger child, 3 year old (different father, me and his dad have been together for 5 years). He was weighed and is of a correct healthy weight for his age, clean, happy, attends nursery, is polite and kind etc. you can see the difference in both children. Youngest is at home with me and attends nursery a few hours a day, eldest lives with gran and dad - that’s the difference.

Unfortunately SS won’t do a thing. Neither will schools. We had the same issue with step daughter. She’s obese, is left alone at home a lot over night (or was when she was younger) school attendance was awful. We contacted SS, they contacted the mother and she said it was all lies! That was it. They didn’t go to see her, or contact school. Now stepdaughter hasn’t been to ours in nearly a year, as mother has poisoned her with hatred etc. it’s so sad.

I’m terribly sorry to hear this. Nobody knows how difficult it is until they really go through it. I’m sick with grief for my child who’s still alive. Is there any hope you will see your step daughter in the future?

You need to go to court apply for child arrangements order. You can also under that state you disagree with home education and apply to have him be enrolled at a school. They will decide where he lives etc.

None of this is quick or simple.

You really need support but you are going to struggle even with a child arrangements order if your son votes with his feet.

Do you think there are any other underlying issues behind your sons behaviour. When did you and dad seperate, when did his behaviours begin? It may well be inconsistency with your and dads/grans parenting. Plus trauma etc. But I would want to look into that too.

What concerns did school have? Other than weight.

You can do a subject access request for school records.

Op why don’t you make an application for a child arrangements order so you can see your son regularly and have more influence?

Me and his father split when he was 3, he’s now 9 so it’s been quite a long time now. I do believe it’s to do with being allowed to do what he wants at that house and having rules here. He hasn’t endured any trauma. He was under the impression that he would spend more time with dad if he went to live there but then disclosed to me that this isn’t the case. I don’t know about school as they won’t give me any information whatsoever, ss are the ones that told me about their weight concerns.

Im unsure if court would be beneficial in this case. I understand that the judge considers what the child says they want to do. I also know it would not just be an easy decision even with an arrangement in place - my son wouldn’t like it and his behaviour would likely be out of control in my care because he wants to go back to dads. I have another child I need to consider, who doesn’t have a big family like my eldest does, and I’d need to consider if I could withstand the extreme stress that would come with a custody battle.

SS may not do much on the basis that it doesn't meet the threshold for removal from a parent - it's not enough that they'd take him into care. However, that doesn't mean that you've got no remedy at all. You can make an application to the family court for a "lives with" order that he lives with you. I think what you'd be asking for would be a lives with order, supervised contact with dad (due to alienating behaviours and the risk of emotional harm), a specific issue order that he returns to his school (or a school - sounds like the last one wasn't terribly helpful), and a prohibited steps order preventing dad / gran from removing him from your care or from his school.

When you make the application, the court will direct a report either from Cafcass or from social services as the family is known to them already. Cafcass might actually be better in these circumstances because SS will generally be looking at it to see "is this bad enough that we have to take this child into care" rather than "is it in the child's best interests to live with his mother."

At 9 his wishes and feelings will be taken into account, but they're not a trump card, and a reasonable Cafcass officer will be able to understand why a 9yo might want to live with the parent who lets him game til 2am even if that is not in his best interests.

You can also ask the court to direct disclosure of the social services records, anything from the school, and to direct dad to produce evidence about what education he's been accessing while home educated.

You would then need to think about how you would manage a 9yo who doesn't want to live with you, doesn't want to go to school, knows it's possible to live off McDonalds, and has been trained to swear and ignore you. What support would you need in place? Would you ask the school to put in some play therapy or counselling for him? Is your DP on side? What are you going to do if your 3yo copies his language? etc.

I completely agree with your last paragraph in particular. My 3 year old is well behaved but he’s currently under SEN at nursery and being assessed for autism, so should he receive a diagnosis, I would have more challenges to face. DP is supportive of what I want to do, but does believe that my eldest son is quite bratty and treats me badly. My son was also very close with his grandad - my dad - for many years, then suddenly he had no interest in seeing him anymore. My dad has told me to let go and move on - he’s seen my child’s behaviour first hand and believes it is completely appalling the way he acts towards me. My youngest child has already started to copy his big brother and repeat swear words when he visits - which I of course do not scold the toddler for because it’s not his fault, he doesn’t even understand what he’s saying. My eldest appears to have a big impact on his little brother, and I do worry that he will copy him further and start acting similar. Is this something I want from yet another child? It’s hard to decipher whether I’d be able to mentally withstand caring for him full time, as there’s no way he would happily skip back home to me and just suddenly behave.

What was your son's behaviour like when he was living with you?

From me and his dad splitting and his dad moving out, we had an arrangement where he was with dad 3 nights a week and with me 4. The longer this went on for, the worse his behaviour became. He become increasingly difficult to manage. I would tell him something such as, turn the game off now, school tomorrow it’s time for bed. He would get angry and start kicking doors and demand I get grandma to collect him. She had told my son that she would collect him and he can go there at any time.

I feel for you, it's a difficult position to be in. Your two choices are

a) move heaven and earth to get your 9yo back with you, back in school, and with a decent chance at life again - but with a phenomenal battle ahead of you to get him back where he needs to be, no doubt against his own wishes which are for gaming and McDs, and with a high emotional risk to your relationships with your DP and 3yo, as well as a possible negative impact on your 3yo who already has additional needs.

b) leave him where he is, and accept that the parenting he receives will ruin his life chances but is short of the threshold for care. The risks here are also that as he grows up he feels you abandoned him for your 'new' family and that as an adult he is aghast that the adults in his life let him choose at 9 to opt out of education and health.

I think you may have been hoping for option c), social services intervene to make his father step up and parent properly, and unfortunately that is very unlikely.

I never gave up on him, I’ve always told him the option to come home is there should he choose to, I walked round town to find his school to see him again, I’ve requested welfare checks, made ss reports etc. tried talking with grandma about his weight to no avail. And there are plenty of people that can back me when he’s older and explain to him that I was a good parent and he’s the one who decided he knew what was best and that was with dad, who subsequently hasn’t cared for him properly. In no way has he been replaced or forgotten, he is the main topic of conversation in this house, I have spent countless nights crying to DP about the situation, and was admitted to hospital to check for a brain bleed as I was so incredibly stressed I had ongoing head pain.

How long has he been living with dad? I find it concerning a child who is 9 (and under 9, as it sounds like he's been living there a while and was obviously running away previously) has even been able to run away to dads house.

I think you need to take some responsibility here op, this is a young child not a teenager. You haven't been to court to get access. It doesn't particularly sound like you want him to live with you either. If a dad posted this he'd be ripped a new one.

id hazard a guess he probably has unidentified Sen if your younger ds has and this is probably partly what's behind his behaviour.

It's also very odd schools and other services won't share info with you if you have parental responsibility but let Nan take over. Have you challenged any of this?

How long has he been living at his Dad's? What happened when he announced he was moving there? Did you apply to the court for 50/50 (whether this would have been enforceable or not is another question, but did you try to force it)?

I worry that when he gets older he'll look back and question why you didn't fight for him in court (if you didn't).

Contact the school via email and remind them they have a legal obligation to send the exact same information on your dc that exh gets. You want backdated copies of everything. Reports.. Letters. Updates.

Ring the education team at your local council for advice and concerns about home schooling.
Ring nspcc although they were frankly useless ime you need to me seeking support from all avenues here.

Is there a cultural difference at okay OP?

My son has lived there for a year. He didn’t run away to dad’s house - he was collected from school by grandma and kept from there. What exactly do I need to take responsibility for sorry? They clearly aren’t caring for him properly and are allowing him to become obese and without an education in their care - but I’m the one to blame?

I rang the school on multiple ocassions, the receptionist was rude and when I said who I was, she said ‘we can’t talk to you sorry’ and hung up the phone.

I think PP is suggesting that you'd have gone to court on the very next day to fight to get him back

No, there is not.