To be infuriated with social services…

[QuaintLilacBee]

To cut a long story short, my son moved out and went to live with dad, grandma, 2 aunties, aunties boyfriend and a newborn last year. This is not a court ordered arrangement, no social services involvement etc. Child wanted to live with dad and as he has parental responsibility he is allowed by law to keep him and not return him if he doesn’t want to. Dad refuses any contact with me and grandma has taken over - she arranges visits with me, she takes care of him whilst dad works etc. she removed him from the school he was at since pre-school with me, and changed his school.

Recently she took him out of school and is ‘home educating’. After speaking to my child he’s told me that he does no form of education whatsoever. When I text to see him, she often tells me he’s ’still In bed’ at 11 and 12 in the afternoon. He comes to visit me looking exhausted and dishevelled, tells me he’s been awake until 2am on the PlayStation. He spends his entire life on games and has no education. Dad doesn’t bother with him. I weighed him as I noticed he had gained considerable weight since moving there, he now weighs 66kg at just 9 years old, which is morbidly obese. Any time I collect him, he’s got multiple bags of sweets and McDonald’s, so it’s clear why he’s this weight. They have no control over him, let him do anything, stay up all night, eat junk, swear, play violent games.

During the last visit to me, his little brother dropped a teddy behind someone’s fence. My eldest proceeded to kick and punch at the fence to get it open. I told him to stop as he was going to break it and get me into trouble, and to instead knock on the door and ask politely for access. His response was to tell me to ‘shut the f* up’. I asked gran to collect him and told her what he had said and she started laughing.

I rang ss last week as I’m concerned for his weight and education. My mum also rang them as she’s recently seen him herself and is concerned about him in their care. They said they have sent a letter to dad to offer ‘optional support’ and contacted the education board to do a check. Yesterday they called me back after I emailed them further evidence of his junk diet and gaming. She told me it had all been screened and allegedly does not require social services intervention. I am absolutely raging beyond belief.

I can’t keep him myself when he comes here, as he will just run away back to dads, and dad can keep him and not return him once again. He prefers living with dad as there’s no rules or restrictions and he can do whatever the hell he wants.

Im concerned for his health, he is very clearly at high risk for diabetes, heart issues amongst other things. He’s got no future job prospects or chance of any GCSE’s when he does no learning. His attitude and behaviour is uncontrollable. There’s essentially no hope for his future while he’s living there. Police have refused to do a welfare check on the child on 2 ocassions. He does not see a GP, go to school etc so there’s nobody in a safeguarding position to check on him at all. His last school even refused to give information to me about why he was removed, despite me having PR and legal right to his education records. I have been dismissed, refused information on my own child, and treated appallingly throughout this whole saga. He had terrible attendance at the school he went to with me, because gran was having him 3 nights per week at that point and would often keep him off because ‘he didn’t want to go in’. The school had also refused to allow me to collect him and handed him to grandma instead who has no legal rights. My child told me when he first moved out he ‘wasn’t allowed’ to talk to me. I walked round the whole of town with my 3 year old, going to every school near his home to find him. Eventually I found what school he was at, I called them, they confirmed he went there so I walked up to see him. The school had called GRANDMA and had her waiting in reception when I arrived, forced me to have a meeting with her and refused me to see my son, all the while dad has no involvement in any of this. I am utterly appalled at how I’ve been treated by every single agency. My child was never took off me, I have no issues with drink or drugs, never hit him, never emotionally abused him etc, no cause for concerns at my house. Just a strict routine of bed time at 8pm, no fizzy drinks, no junk food, must attend school etc and apparently this is bad parenting on my behalf to the point I’ve been treated like a criminal.

sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this off my chest.

No I'm not. I just have an understanding of what does and doesn't prompt s37 enquiries. This isn't a decision that is made by me. It is a decision I have seen made by the court on several occasions where children are in circumstances similar to that which is described by the OP. As I said, if you've had an alternative experience, please share.

As to minimising, OP has described a very concerning situation whereby this child evidently has no boundaries, is not in education, and is potentially being neglected.

Notwithstanding OP has PR therefore should have been consulted before the child was removed from school, and it is likely that were she apply to the court for the child to be returned (unless a long time has elapsed), she would be successful.

This sounds like a living nightmare for you. Your DS might say he wants to live with Dad but he doesn't necessarily know what's in his own best interest. Going to school and getting an education and being with people his own age so he can make friendships is very important. I'd not give up on him. I'd go back to court to fight for a residency order. I'd tell judge he's not in school, he's hugely overweight and stays in bed most of the day and games all night. I'd tell the judge you want him back in school and making peer friendships and eating nutritional meals.

You’re misunderstanding here. Home education and a child being overweight aren’t necessarily of themselves triggers for care proceedings.

But many parents who claim to be home educating them are not doing so. They’ve simply not registered them for schools or could not organise to get the children to school. Often the children want to go to school. That’s neglect. It’s unlikely to be the only problem but it’s definitely a relevant and significant one.

Similarly, if a child has been obese for several years then this has serious implications for short and long term health. And all lawyers who have been in this line of work for any length of time have dealt with cases where obesity is the trigger for care proceedings.

There are reported cases on both these issues.

You've been horribly passive in this situation OP. All kids at 9 try to push their boundaries. It's never easy parenting children. But when you give birth to them and chose to bring them into the world, you are ultimately responsible. Not their grandparents.

Stop hand wringing and get yourself to a solicitor. Take responsibility for the situation that you've allowed to carry on. This poor boy must feel totally abandoned by you, no wonder he plays up when he sees you. I don't mean to be harsh but nothing in this world would have kept me from my children.

You claimed that LA's issue proceedings for 'less severe matters'.

Once threshold is met for the LA to make application, a court will direct all manner of enquiries on top of what the LA is already assessing.

This child (if OP is to be believed) is not even open on a CP plan at this stage, let alone any discussion about PP.

You're now adding other things into the mix outside of your outlandish claim which wasnt the point of my post.

Do you actually want your son home OP or are you wanting SS to get involved to make sure your ex and his mum parent him correctly?

Im not misunderstanding at all, the poster claimed that the LA would have to explain themselves so to speak as to why they hadnt issued care or SO proceedings and that they had worked on cases of 'less severe matters'

Children being overweight, significantly overweight, not the level of this child (which is way too overweight) and children being wholly and significantly neglected work their way through CP, then PP then issuing if threshold is met but as a much wider range of needs not being met overall

Unfortunately in this country we allow people to say they are home educating and not require them to engage with the LA 'checks' and unless there are other markers of neglect.

What OP describes, on the little she has described because its all muddled up with grandma making decisions which is neither here nor there given the father gives consent to that, would require proceedings.

There may be far more to it however as others have already said.

No, I said that in my experience, in similar and even less severe situations, the LA have been directed to carry out s37 enquiries. This is not the same as the LA issuing proceedings.

What I have said is true and I have no reason to lie about it! I really don't know why you are so insistent that I am lying, particularly when I've asked you to provide examples of similar/more severe matters where s37 enquires have not been directed, and you haven't.

I'm not going to engage in this pointless conversation any more as it's incredibly strange. I was speaking from my experience. I can't tell you anything else.

yes, in the matter i was speaking about the parent who was 'home schooling' the child was not giving them any sort of education, then began completing work themselves and telling the school/LA that the child was doing it, which was entirely unbelievable. it's very damaging for a child, particularly as when they are returned from school, they can experience feelings of resentment towards the parent who is taking them and want to return to the 'fun' parent who is not acting in their interest. notwithstanding the effect on their education.

By 'explain themselves' I mean carry out s37 checks and prepare a report to explain whether they intend to issue proceedings and if not, why not. It's fairly common.

Why didn’t you immediately go to court to get access formalized then? You sound very passive when describing what happened.

You are allowing this. You need to go to court.

Op - I just wanted to say that when I wasn't much older than your ds. My parents (also separated) ended up in a similar situation. I lived with my Mother but she wasn't caring for me properly or putting my best interests first. My Dad knew this (perhaps not to the full extent, but he knew things were deteriorating). But he didn't step up, fight for me and try to get custody when he really should of done. It permanently damaged our relationship as I grew older - I am now no contact with my Mother and although I have contact with him, our relationship has been permanently fractured by the choices he made back then.

Please don't end up like we did - your son needs you to stand up and fight for him in court. He needs to live with you again.

You pay it. Nobody pays you back....its for your kid

the receptionist can’t do this. You have parental responsibility. As you’ve pointed out, your child’s dad can take him and keep him because he has PR, so can you.

why didn’t you push this with the school ?

is there something else going on here you aren’t mentioning?

From what you have said you have mo choice BUT to take on the stress of a court process, you are fully aware that your son is being neglected in his fathers care and I’m sorry to say the onus is mot on social services to step in at this point its your responsibility as his other parent!! At 9, whilst your sons voice eill ne heard, a judge will rule for an arrangement that is in his best interests, eg to spend time with you! Stop expecting SS to sort this mess, it should never have come to this!!

I agree that this should have been formalised in the courts a long time ago as they would have never been able to just keep him at Grandma's or take him out of school.

However I am shocked that you can just pull a child out of school and just "say" you are homeschooling them. I can't take my child out of school for 5 days to visit family abroad without the full weight of the council falling on my arse with threats of court action and massive fines, yet a 9 year old can be dragged out of school for months and just left to their own devices with video games and the council can barely muster the energy to check he's been adequately educated?! Christ.

I imagine the OP has abandoned this thread, having been informed that she's actually going to have to step up and parent her own child.

Of COURSE school have a duty to share info on your own DS’s progress with you. Why wouldn’t they??? Did you really just accept this unquestioningly? And accept that as his own mother with PR and no SS complaints in place that you somehow weren’t allowed to be informed around your own DS’s education? 🥴

I’m finding your passivity and lack of effort to educate yourself around this sort of thing really frustrating. You sound quite wet and not putting in much effort. It smacks of wanting to drag your feet and put the blame elsewhere for the fact you actually don’t want him back because you were struggling to manage his behaviour (probably due to the same sorts of low-energy vibes)

In the eyes of the law, his father was legally allowed to keep him and not return him to me. That wasn’t me allowing him to decide where he lives, thats me having no other choice. Police refused to return the child as dad legally has PR also and is within hug rights to keep him.
Yes, this is true as his dad has parental responsibility, but so do you! In situations like this when parents disagree on where the child should live or what school they go to etc etc it's normal for one parent or the other to go to the Court to ask them to make an order about where the child should live, or go to school etc.
Ideally, you would have gone to Court the moment dad refused to return him to you, which was your son's normal place of residence. It's now a year later and things have really deteriorated for your son by the sounds of it, and he's clearly not a happy child.
You recognise all the damage it's doing to him. In order to improve his situation and his life opportunities, you really have no alternative but to go to Court- at least to force his father to send him to school, and for some regular court directed contact with you, even if it doesn't always happen.
It's absolutely imperative to get your son going to school. It's worth going to Court for this reason only if necessary. Attending school will give him an education, widen his contact in the world, and will allow him to be monitored and pick up any safeguarding issues and any other special needs he may have.
You have parental responsibility for your son. You must exercise this to help improve his situation!

I think SS won’t get involved because they know he is a difficult child and would be hard to place.

I don’t believe any of the “Not meeting SS thresholds” as they are only too quick to move if you do anything if anyone reports you for even minor things.
Only a few years ago, mentioning that a child was home schooled with a complaint to SS was a red flag and even if the complaint was bogus they assigned a SW to the case and a surprise telephone call and or visit followed
Was told this by a SW

It's also very odd schools and other services won't share info with you if you have parental responsibility but let Nan take over. Have you challenged any of this?

I don’t understand this part at all. As a children’s nurse we do not give information out to grandparents let alone enable to them make active decisions in their grandchildren’s care without the courts and social care’s involvement and PR being taken off a parent.

This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on here in a long time.

Threshold documents are on every LA website if you want to actually educate yourself instead of looking silly.

I’ve not read the full thread (got about halfway through), so apologise if someone has already advised this.

Coming at it from a school point of view, as many have correctly stated, the school should not be excluding you from communications or restricting you from your child as you have parental responsibility. This is taken seriously and in my experience, even when a parent has disclosed domestic violence or upsetting circumstances that means they want to stop a second parent collecting / being contacted. We have to advise them that without the legal paperwork in place to state that the other parent cannot be involved, we cannot legally stop them collecting. We always advise that they start legal proceedings immediately and in the meantime, we agree to call the first parent, should parent two arrive for collection / contact the school to allow for communication between the two of them before the child is collected. This sounds like what may have happened in your situation with the Grandmother being at school. Which suggests they have shared some sort of reason with the school as to why you are unsuitable to see the child.

I would recommend making a subject access request (SAR) including both your name and your child’s name. This is legal and the school have no choice but to comply. If these conversations have been had and arrangements put in place in case you got in touch with/ arrived, they will have been recorded. Both in a safeguarding capacity and a pastoral / personal records capacity. It’s possible that any information in there could help you if you decide to go through family court.

I do feel sorry for you OP, but I feel more sorry for your son who doesn't seem to have a parent who is willing to put him first.

I don't understand how you've allowed this situation to happen. You should have had court ordered contact from the start. You knew what your ex was like and likely knew what his mother was like too. At the age of 3 I would have been fighting to have my child with me as much as possible to avoid exposing him to those toxic people. Obviously dad would have got some contact but unlikely to be as much as you willingly gave. If you'd had a court order the police would have been able to intervene. At the very least why have you let it go on this long without taking action. He's 9!!! He doesn't get to decide to do what he wants.

Sorry if this is harsh but I cannot imagine a circumstance where I would passively sit back and let my child's life be ruined like this