13 year old has no relationship with 4 year old sister

[Purplekittenfurball]

my 13 barely has a relationship with her 4 year old sister. They also have an 11 year old brother.

13 yo is close to the 11 yo. 11 yo interacts with, is pleasant too, and has a positive relationship with the 4 yo. He will play a bit with her on occasion, engage her in conversation, do a puzzle with her (For example) or admire her dollies when she brings them over to him etc.

13 year old rarely speaks to the 4yo. The only occasions when she will is if she is asking her to stop doing something. In a disgusted or angry tone she will ask her “stop that” or “be quiet” or “cover your mouth”.

I am not expecting the 13 yo to have the same relationship with the 11yo and she has with the 4yo. They are naturally going to have very different interests, where the 13 yo and 11 yo have more in common at the moment. But I would love for them to have some kind of positive relationship. I worry that if they have nothing now- then in a few more years they will still have no relationship and will have lost the chance at a sibling bond.

a 13 yo is always going to be very self centred. I get that. And 4 year olds are kind of annoying when they sing the same song over and over or get upset because they can’t have any more bluey episodes or whatever. But they are both wonderful people. Funny and inquisitive and lively.

am I being ridiculous to ask the 13 yo to spend 10 minutes on each weekend day interacting with her sister? As simple as colouring with her? Or playing with her with some of her old toys?

the 4yo has learnt not to bother talking to her tbh as she just gets snarled at-but loves it when 13 yo has friends over who want to interact with her. 13 yo says that 4yo doesn’t like her….but the 4yo has never had 13 say anything nice to her or play with her, so she probably feels the same- even if she hasn’t said it. Because 11yo does act positively towards her she interacts with him and both enjoy it.

just for clarity- if the 4yo is being naughty or over the top annoying we always intervene. She’s not allowed in 13 yo room. She’s generally a good kid though! ( as is the 13 yo!)

I have tried my best to ensure 13 yo doesn’t feel jealous of her sister. 13 yo has own room. She has at least (usually more)an evening a week with each parent doing activities/ watching films. She spends 1 night a week at grandparents ( which she loves) just her and them. She does extra curricular clubs and recently requested tutoring, which I got for her. She has friends over and I would say is happy in her life.

I love both girls so much and would adore it if they could be friends. I think they could potentially get so much out of building a relationship.

I would never expect or ask 13 or 11 yo to do any parenting of her. They have never been asked to watch her or fix her food or dress her or anything like that. I want them to have a sibling relationship, not a parent/ child one.

is this futile? Is it useless to insist a 13 yo builds a relationship with her sister?

should I just settle for ignore her completely, just don’t be rude to her? Loads of people don’t like their siblings and it doesn’t matter.

should I wait this out and 13 yo will come round when she’s through this tricky stage of puberty? She’ll be nice to her when she’s maybe 15+….or is that too late?

I think insisting on a daily playtime would only increase resentment.

This.

The last thing you want to do is force time together.

I think you can ask her to be nicer - but that’s the best you will get for another two years

Don’t insist they spend time together. The 13 yo doesn’t like the 4 yo. That may change in the future. Let it be.

I wasn’t going to ask for everyday- just maybe at weekends?

That’s really sad. I’ve an 11 year old and she loves spending time with her 3 year old sis. Your DD 13 gets a lot of extras- as you say she sounds quite self centred, and a bit spoilt and rude. Quite sad for the 4 year old to be spoken to like this and ignored.

Tackling it is hard as you’ve not set any boundaries or expectations so far. I wouldn’t impose a time frame of 10 minutes, but I would tell the 13 yo that you might need her to support the younger one at times- to help you out. Listen to her sister read, or have a book read to her. Draw a picture together, do playdough together, a jigsaw etc. Not for long, but to help them establish a relationship. And have clear instructions for the attitude- no rudeness or harshness- she’s 4!!!

It's actually quite common and developmentally normal. At 13, many kids are starting to seek independence and spend more time with friends or alone, exploring their own identity. A 4-year-old is in a very different stage, playful, needy, and often wanting attention in ways that can feel annoying or boring to a teenager.

It doesn’t necessarily mean the older one doesn’t care about her sister, she may just need space and have trouble finding ways to connect given the big age gap.

I'd be inclined to say as both siblings age, a bond will naturally develop, especially as the younger one enters the same demanding age and developmental stages as her older sister did and her older sister would likely have a great deal of advice to pass down to her sister.

I have two grown up kids now but they were only a couple of years apart, boy and girl and they spent little time together at a certain age, often choosing to play with their respective friends. Now they are in their 30's with families of their own, and stay either side of the border here in the UK but Facetime each other most days and meet up as often as they can, as do we all.

Step or half sister?
It's a huge age gap in any case. You an't expect these things. It may change. Leave the 13 yo to do her own thing.

Why should have a relationship with them? They are not a toy you wanted another child why would you automatically assume your eldest wanted this?

Sure they shouldn't be mean but you did this for you not them it is a big age gap

It may change as they grow but no idea why you would assume it would

Agree, forced time will build resentment.
For what it's worth, my eldest sister is 10 years older - I barely saw her growing up as she was off to uni and out with friends, job etc during my childhood and teenage years.
However since both started working, got married, had kids we have become much closer.
As your youngest gets older they will find more in common.
Meanwhile, if eldest wants more pocket money, you could very grudgingly, offer her the chance of baby sitting for a little while.

I have a similar age gap with my older sibling and they’ve never forgiven me for being born. Forcing time together would have made things worse.

They may have a bond in a few years, they may not. That’s the risk you take with siblings.

@UniversityofWarwick haha... That's the one who is a couple of years older than me. I am still not forgiven for being born!

A 13 year old is never going to be friends with a 4 year old. I think forcing her to spend time with a 4 year old is going to increase any dislike. But you can insist she be politer. And you just have to hope things change when they are adults, but accept they may not.

Are they full siblings? I’m wondering if any of this is coming from resentment of a new partner and a change to her life?

@PollyBell wow!

all the children are here now ( the circumstances of which you have no idea of) and I just want them to be happy and honestly believe that a sibling relationship can be rewarding. Therefore if there is chance they can have this then I would like to know how to best facilitate it.

actually, had I asked my 9 yo would you like a baby sister- the answer would have been a resounding yes! but it wasn’t her decision, but mine and my husbands. Should I have not had a child as in the future they might have not gotten on? Do you think everyone should only have one child?

I think you need to tell 13 y/old that you expect them to speak and behave respectfully. That is the bare minimum. You don’t need them to adore everything their sibling does, but explain that their behaviour is cruel.

Yes, they are full siblings

Don’t force a relationship. I had a gap of around 12 years with a sibling and wanted nothing to do with them. That didn’t involve jealousy or anything negative, it was just because a 12yo has zero in common with a baby apart from DNA. I had nothing to do with them through childhood. I would visit home from uni and still have nothing to do with them, I went to visit my parents, not a child I had nothing in common with. However, once they reached early teens and became more of a ‘person’ that you could have a half decent conversation with we then started to develop a relationship which strengthened over their teenage years and I would say became a good sibling relationship by their late teens and continued on from there.

I imagine if my parents forced me to watch Bluey or something with them, or colouring in or playing dolls, we’d probably never have had a relationship as I would have then resented them, which I never did, just was not interested in them.

@UniversityofWarwick @HereForTheFreeLunch
so what would you recommend? Since everyone is here now and I can’t really give one back! What would have helped in your situation?

It’s a huge age gap. Some react well some
don’t as your tuned the family dynamic upside down. She was 9 and understood her family set up and all was good then a new baby got inserted into the mix and from her perspective ruined everything. Best just leave them be and hope over time she develops a bond as they get older

I think you risk making things far worse by asking her to spend time with her little sister. It's certainly worth suggesting it to her though if she ever says that her little sister doesn't like her.

You can't force it. I'm sure they will become closer later on. At 13 you are a whirlwind of emotion and insecurity and desperately want to be grown up. The four year old is a reminder of a childhood that she doesn't want at the moment as it's too close to home.

I don't think you can force a relationship. 13 year olds are generally pretty self involved, they have a lot going on in adolescence and schoolwork, friendships and hobbies are all more important to them than spending 'family' time generally. I would expect her to not be nasty to her little sibling but that's all you can insist on. I think you just have to hope that a better relationship will develop over time.

Echoing all the above, do NOT push spending time together. It will only backfire. But you can and should insist on 13yo speaking nicely to her sister.

Don’t force it. They may be closer when they get older. Some siblings just don’t get on, even with a small age gap.

The age gap is simply too big for them to be close as peers for a long, long time (probably until they’re in their 30s or 40s). It was your choice to have another child with such a big gap, you can’t insist on anything other than manners and perhaps her changing her tone to be a bit more pleasant