13 year old has no relationship with 4 year old sister

[Purplekittenfurball]

my 13 barely has a relationship with her 4 year old sister. They also have an 11 year old brother.

13 yo is close to the 11 yo. 11 yo interacts with, is pleasant too, and has a positive relationship with the 4 yo. He will play a bit with her on occasion, engage her in conversation, do a puzzle with her (For example) or admire her dollies when she brings them over to him etc.

13 year old rarely speaks to the 4yo. The only occasions when she will is if she is asking her to stop doing something. In a disgusted or angry tone she will ask her “stop that” or “be quiet” or “cover your mouth”.

I am not expecting the 13 yo to have the same relationship with the 11yo and she has with the 4yo. They are naturally going to have very different interests, where the 13 yo and 11 yo have more in common at the moment. But I would love for them to have some kind of positive relationship. I worry that if they have nothing now- then in a few more years they will still have no relationship and will have lost the chance at a sibling bond.

a 13 yo is always going to be very self centred. I get that. And 4 year olds are kind of annoying when they sing the same song over and over or get upset because they can’t have any more bluey episodes or whatever. But they are both wonderful people. Funny and inquisitive and lively.

am I being ridiculous to ask the 13 yo to spend 10 minutes on each weekend day interacting with her sister? As simple as colouring with her? Or playing with her with some of her old toys?

the 4yo has learnt not to bother talking to her tbh as she just gets snarled at-but loves it when 13 yo has friends over who want to interact with her. 13 yo says that 4yo doesn’t like her….but the 4yo has never had 13 say anything nice to her or play with her, so she probably feels the same- even if she hasn’t said it. Because 11yo does act positively towards her she interacts with him and both enjoy it.

just for clarity- if the 4yo is being naughty or over the top annoying we always intervene. She’s not allowed in 13 yo room. She’s generally a good kid though! ( as is the 13 yo!)

I have tried my best to ensure 13 yo doesn’t feel jealous of her sister. 13 yo has own room. She has at least (usually more)an evening a week with each parent doing activities/ watching films. She spends 1 night a week at grandparents ( which she loves) just her and them. She does extra curricular clubs and recently requested tutoring, which I got for her. She has friends over and I would say is happy in her life.

I love both girls so much and would adore it if they could be friends. I think they could potentially get so much out of building a relationship.

I would never expect or ask 13 or 11 yo to do any parenting of her. They have never been asked to watch her or fix her food or dress her or anything like that. I want them to have a sibling relationship, not a parent/ child one.

is this futile? Is it useless to insist a 13 yo builds a relationship with her sister?

should I just settle for ignore her completely, just don’t be rude to her? Loads of people don’t like their siblings and it doesn’t matter.

should I wait this out and 13 yo will come round when she’s through this tricky stage of puberty? She’ll be nice to her when she’s maybe 15+….or is that too late?

not ever
leave them to forge their own relationship. It may not ever happen, but that's not the children's fault. You must have known that having a nearly 10 year age difference would cause problems.
The only rule you need to have is respect for each other, and no spitting.

I think you need to start imposing consequences on the 13 year old for 'snarling' and other meanness toward her little sister. It's not ok and she shouldn't be allowed to get away with any of that. Tell her she was treated with kindness and patience by all she encountered when she was small, that her little sister deserves the same, and that you can't let her treat her little sister badly.

Start digging into her friendships - any problems there? Any 'queen bee' in her friend group or in her year group in school? Any teacher she feels is picking on her?

Is the bad behaviour related to her menstrual cycle - it's not an excuse; DD needs to be aware of mood fluctuations and try to rein herself in.

Make a point of sitting down with her occasionally and looking through photos of her as a young child - reminisce, have her talk about her early schooldays. If you kept any artwork of hers from her earlier years, maybe take it out and look at it, or consider framing it for display. This would be a gentle reminder that she wasn't always as sophisticated as she believes she is now. It might also elicit a hint of any jealousy she may be feeling.

I dont think you should force them to play together but do go do family things. Also id really try to work on her attitude. You say 4yo isnt 'allowed' into the room but, she's 13 not 23. It's up to the parents to knock that on the head. She sounds like she needs more discipline. I'm sorry to be so blunt but it will only get worse. Be the parent and tell her it isn't on. You will 💯 regret it if you dont stop it now. Start by telling her not to tell the little one off because she isn't her mother. You are. Hope it all works out.

Because its normal.

Cannot believe all of the people saying they dont need a relationship. Ridiculous. They dont have to be forced to be together but basic manners and humanity is free. I would hate to think if I died that my children wouldn't be together. My eldest was 13 when my son was born and she was like his 2nd mother. She was amazing. My 10 year old wasn't as enthused but she still loved him and played with him. The 7 year old who is now 19 was like any 7 year old. Take it or leave it but if any of them ever spoke to each other like this! Absolutely not. As for ' it was your choice to have more' it was also her choice to have the 1st one so there's that. Shes alive and here as is the 4 year old. I think a lot of changes need to be made or there will be so many regrets later. I feel so bad for the 4year old being spoken to and treated like that.

Why would it cause problems???? This is a ridiculous theme through these replies.

It’s entirely reasonable for the 4 year old to not be allowed in the 13 yr olds bedroom. A bedroom is a personal space where she can expect to have privacy. Why would a 4 year old want to go in a teenager’s bedroom anyway unless the teenager lets her? I think children’s personal belongings and space should be respected. I would say the same about the 11 yr old brother. Unless she invites him in, he shouldn’t be allowed to just wander in.

You can teach the 13 year old to be a little kinder to the 4 year old but you can't force a bond.

My mum had me and 2 other siblings really close together. Then when I was 7/8 she had our youngest sibling. The age gap was too big, we had no interest in a child so much younger than us. We were polite to her and did have a relationship as such, but it wasn't the same closeness as us older three

Even as adults none of us are really close to her. We are always at different stages of life, we've all got kids ect and some of us are married, she's still out partying ect

As an adult she has said it hurt that we weren't really interested in her as kids, but we were say 7/8/9 and she was a newborn

I literally could have written this op. I have a 4 year old dd, an 11 year old ds and a 12 year old dd. The 12 year old is fantastic in all other ways except for her interactions with her sister. She’s unpleasant with her and just has no tolerance whatsoever. It makes me so sad. I don’t know what the answer is really but you’re not alone. I don’t think you can force these things though.

Be honest OP - does your 4 year old hog your attention and take that away from your older child? Are they a bit more spoilt? If so, that will piss her off.

If not, try not to force a relationship but perhaps encourage something they can work on together, without making your older child a minder for the younger one.

Since when? people are living in the same house due to be being born why is it normal that will autmoically get on?

great if they do but no I can't see why it would be considered normal

Agree!

The world has just gone to crap with these attitudes.

My sister is 9 years older than me, she had zero interest in me as a baby/child/teenager and as adults, we have nothing in common and are almost total strangers. We only bump into each other occasionally at family weddings/funerals.

I feel like an only child which is just how the cookie crumbles sometimes with such a big age gap.

Oh i find this really sad, our oldest 15 son will happily still play, mess around with all his siblings down to the twins who are 2, the 2,3 and 4 year olds absolutely adore there big brother and he will be the first to scoop them up for cuddles when he is in from school or help them if they fall. All 7 will regularly go for walks or to the park together. We've just had a great holiday with them all and we make sure theres something all ages can be included in. I was brought up with a 15 year difference between me and my younger brother who now at 25 and 40 he is literally my best friend, he will call me daily and same back..i just love it when a family all gets on no matter the ages

She is not self centred. She is a kid herself and has no interest in a kid who is so much younger than her.

How was 13 year old with her little sister a few years ago? Did she take interest when her sister was a baby?

Nothing, just wait and watch. You can’t control their relationship, just hope for the best.

Why should the parents “knock it on the head” about the bedroom? A 4 year old must be allowed to just go into the 13 year old’s bedroom? I think that’s an odd attitude. Her bedroom is a personal space where she should be allowed privacy. I’d say the same for the 11 year old brother - he shouldn’t expect to just wander in and out of the 13 yr old’s bedroom and vice versa. Fine if they want to let each other in but it shouldn’t just be assumed. Why would a 4 year old want to be in the teenagers bedroom anyway? Aside from respecting
privacy (which imo is the most important factor as the parent) , I can imagine the teen probably has bits and pieces, make up, tech etc which the 4 year old would only mess about with

As the older sibling of a similar age gap, do not force them to spend time together. Yes, family time, but do not force her to play with her. I was always forced to play, go in the garden with them etc. I hated it. They were allowed in my room, which sometimes I didn’t mind but when I needed my space they were allowed to stay in there - I know this wasn’t my siblings fault, but it caused a lot of resentment and made things a heck of a lot worse. Give your thirteen year old the space - she should come around in the future, we did.

I'm ot reading it all because the knock it on the head means the attitude and behaviour.

My half sister was born when i was 11. It negatively impacted my life in so many ways. I won’t derail the thread by listing them but it was awful.
At 13 I was regularly looking after her but also wasn’t really allowed to tell her what to do so it didn’t work.
Definitely don’t force your 13 year old to spend time with the little one. Some children that age are great with little ones but the majority won’t be because ultimately it is going to make their life harder.

As an aside I am very close to my sister now and have helped her out a lot with her children. I’m happy to help now I am an adult but it’s not what I wanted as a child.

I was responding to this part of your post:

You say 4to isn’t ‘allowed’ into the room but, she’s 13 not 23. It’s up to the parents to knock that on the head.

I’ve already said the parents should absolutely not allow any rudeness or unkind behaviour. But neither should they insist the 13 year has specific ‘play times’ with the sibling, nor should the 4 yr old be allowed to just wander into the sister’s bedroom when she likes. Children’s right to some space and privacy should be respected imo.

I will re state- following the over whelming consensus I will not be insisting the 13 yo spends time with her 4 yo sister.

I really was looking for advice to facilitate a positive and mutually beneficial (for all children’s and family as a whole) relationship.

I know it’s a big gap. I get that. I feel I’m getting a lot of “well, what did you expect” type comments. All families are different, and ideally I would have less of a gap or another child a couple years back so there would be a tribe of three or two groups of two- but various factors made that not happen.

I’m trying to be a good mum, and I just want them to be happy, and if the hive mind on here had ideas I wanted to tap it.

I will continue to enforce the rule that the 13 to must be polite and respectful the the 4yo.

I will continue to intervene if the 4yo is being “ 4yo annoying”

I’m going to stick with the 4yo not having access to the 13 yo room. I think she needs a space that’s her own. The 4yo also doesn’t go in the 11yo room, unless he asks her to come in- which he sometimes does. I don’t want her to be touching, borrowing or potentially breaking stuff that’s important to them- like the 13 yo make up or art supplies or the 11 yo Lego creations. Like wise, I expect the older children not to mess with her dollies and sindy’s- although tbh, I doubt she’d mind.

I will still continue to take the family on group days out. I still think it has value. I will also continue to do separate age appropriate trips for the different age groups and facilitate individual activities and friends meet ups for all.

thank you to everyone who has responded with their experiences.

Agree with this. The 13 year old is being unkind. She’s old enough to have empathy and to understand that she could be having an adverse effect on the younger child