13 year old has no relationship with 4 year old sister

[Purplekittenfurball]

my 13 barely has a relationship with her 4 year old sister. They also have an 11 year old brother.

13 yo is close to the 11 yo. 11 yo interacts with, is pleasant too, and has a positive relationship with the 4 yo. He will play a bit with her on occasion, engage her in conversation, do a puzzle with her (For example) or admire her dollies when she brings them over to him etc.

13 year old rarely speaks to the 4yo. The only occasions when she will is if she is asking her to stop doing something. In a disgusted or angry tone she will ask her “stop that” or “be quiet” or “cover your mouth”.

I am not expecting the 13 yo to have the same relationship with the 11yo and she has with the 4yo. They are naturally going to have very different interests, where the 13 yo and 11 yo have more in common at the moment. But I would love for them to have some kind of positive relationship. I worry that if they have nothing now- then in a few more years they will still have no relationship and will have lost the chance at a sibling bond.

a 13 yo is always going to be very self centred. I get that. And 4 year olds are kind of annoying when they sing the same song over and over or get upset because they can’t have any more bluey episodes or whatever. But they are both wonderful people. Funny and inquisitive and lively.

am I being ridiculous to ask the 13 yo to spend 10 minutes on each weekend day interacting with her sister? As simple as colouring with her? Or playing with her with some of her old toys?

the 4yo has learnt not to bother talking to her tbh as she just gets snarled at-but loves it when 13 yo has friends over who want to interact with her. 13 yo says that 4yo doesn’t like her….but the 4yo has never had 13 say anything nice to her or play with her, so she probably feels the same- even if she hasn’t said it. Because 11yo does act positively towards her she interacts with him and both enjoy it.

just for clarity- if the 4yo is being naughty or over the top annoying we always intervene. She’s not allowed in 13 yo room. She’s generally a good kid though! ( as is the 13 yo!)

I have tried my best to ensure 13 yo doesn’t feel jealous of her sister. 13 yo has own room. She has at least (usually more)an evening a week with each parent doing activities/ watching films. She spends 1 night a week at grandparents ( which she loves) just her and them. She does extra curricular clubs and recently requested tutoring, which I got for her. She has friends over and I would say is happy in her life.

I love both girls so much and would adore it if they could be friends. I think they could potentially get so much out of building a relationship.

I would never expect or ask 13 or 11 yo to do any parenting of her. They have never been asked to watch her or fix her food or dress her or anything like that. I want them to have a sibling relationship, not a parent/ child one.

is this futile? Is it useless to insist a 13 yo builds a relationship with her sister?

should I just settle for ignore her completely, just don’t be rude to her? Loads of people don’t like their siblings and it doesn’t matter.

should I wait this out and 13 yo will come round when she’s through this tricky stage of puberty? She’ll be nice to her when she’s maybe 15+….or is that too late?

They’re not saying that though. And I agree with them - you can expect the 13 year old to be civil to their sibling, yes. But you can neither expect or force a relationship between them.

Some people like young children. Others really don’t. You can’t force it, but just because she doesn’t want to spend time with the little one now doesn’t mean they won’t have a nice relationship when they’re older. If you force it now, it’s much more likely to cause resentment and lead to a situation where she really doesn’t want much of a relationship later either.

Deal with the rudeness and snappiness as you would if she did it to the 11yo. She might not want to spend time colouring with a 4yo but basic manners are still necessary.

You can make the choice to have another child but you can never guarantee what the sibling relationship will look like, and sometimes you just need to let them get on with it.

There’s a 6 year gap between DH and his DB. They didn’t become super close until DH came back after uni and now they’re very close. My DM was apparently awful to my aunt when they were growing up (according to aunt!) but now they’re inseparable and best friends that spend their weekends and holidays together in their 50s and I’m very close to my aunt and my cousin as a result. On the flip side, DF was closer to his siblings growing up and never sees them now! People find their groove at a time that works for them.

I have a 13 yo ds and 4 yo dd and just try and keep things really relaxed and non pressured and don’t criticise anything 13 yo does with 4 yo (unless absolutely necessary of course eg be careful in picking her up). I do treats for both of them like making pancakes and do lots of remembering how ds was when he was little and what he liked to foster a link between them. He likes showing her tv programmes that he used to like. I’d take the pressure off and try and associate 4 yo with positive things for 13 yo. I don’t think forcing things will help.

All the age gap siblings I know have had lovely relationships (don’t get me wrong they all have times when they’re irritated with each other, as with all siblings).

Enforcing time together like you suggest sounds like a recipe for deeper resentment. Sounds like 13 year old does lots of stuff just for her. What do you do as a family? I think fostering time together as a family is really important. Have a think about things all three children will enjoy and start planning those things in. Beach trip? Baking together? Some board games might span the age gap. Nice walks? I don’t know, but you know your kids and you need to put emphasis on being a family unit rather than forcing that one relationship.

My sibling is 10 years younger than me. I wasn't at all interested at the time. Don't push it, don't expect them to do things together but try and do things that they both might enjoy....theme park, zoo, play zone, cinema....together but without her feeling that she has to play with her sister. A relationship might develop, it might not.
I started liking and interacting with my sibling when I was 25 and they were a teenager. Now as adults with children we get on very well.

I have a much smaller age gap with my sibling and at that age wanted absolutely nothing to do with them. I think that is pretty normal as others have said.

I was forced to take her out with me and my DFs regularly and it did nothing but make me resent her more.

Im pleased to say that as adults we get among five and see one another most weeks but if you do for e this through, you will be showing a lack of understanding and empathy towards your 13 yo.

Yes toh can insist that she’s not rude and you can let her choose family activities, as long as they’re age appropriate but you really shouldn’t expect them to just get along and force her to do things that she doesn’t want to do.

Unfortunately it’s a risk you take with all siblings but the risk is generally greater with bigger gaps.

What are DD1’s plans? Is she in track for A’Levels and looking to go to Uni?

I would do stuff as a family or in small groups where they happen to both be there, rather than force the two of them to spend time together.

You say you want them to be friends and wouldn't expect parenting tasks. A 13 yo and a 4 yo aren't going to be friends. Forcing your 13 yo to play with 4yo is essentially having them do a parenting task.

My older dc doted on their baby sibling from birth. Always loved giving and receiving cuddles, making them giggle etc. Yes they got annoyed at times but the love outshone that. How did it get to the stage you're at now OP?

It’s a huge age gap and at 13 she probably won’t be interested. Stop trying to force it and let your dd make her own mind up. They’ll probably be closer in a few years.

I think you just need to let it go. You can insist on kindness and respect, but that’s it. There was a similar age gap between myself and my youngest brother. And I did not spend much time with him as a teen either. But as adults we are friends and if he or I were ever in trouble we would help one another.

Yes this, she is a teenager maybe a bit resentful of the attention her sister gets id let it be, I would stamp down a bit on her rudeness but don't make her "play with her"

Has their relationship always been like this, op? Did your then 9 yr old dd take an interest in the baby or has she always been a bit distant/hostile? Maybe she’s jealous of the easy relationship your ds has with the youngest, as it was just the two of them, quite close in age, for so long. Could there be any other reason your 13 yr old is jealous of her sister?

I think your eldest, at 13, is old enough to have a conversation about this with you. Would it be possible to discuss gently how much of a difference a slight shift in her attitude might make to the 4yr old and how continued unpleasantness from an older sibling is likely to impact her self-esteem? Maybe suggest she might occasionally read her sister a bedtime story or try to interact with her the way she would with a friend’s younger sibling (hopefully not unpleasantly!)

DH has the same age gap with his brother, no real relationship when they were young but they get on fine now but are not close, very different interests and lives. DH left home when his brother was 7 so they didn’t really get to know each other.
DHs Mum kind of kept them separate though, she couldn’t really handle two kids at a time so packed DH off to his Grannies at the weekend which didn’t help!

my kids are 15, 11 and 3. It’s hard when there’s little in common. It’ll develop as they get older.

I think you need to just accept it to an extent.
Id certainly set rules about being kind and not just telling her little sister off all the time and trying to be kind, even if shes feeling annoyed.
I think maybe if you acted more collaboratively with your eldest and allowed her to talk to you honestly about her feelings towards your youngest, or find someone who she can speak to honestly. What is your set up like? What has changed for your eldest? Is there a reason she finds it harder to bond than her brother does? Has she had more expected of her? Has she had to change bedrooms?

I have a similar gap between me and my Sister i wasn't that bothered being close to her, infact it was like 2 different families and I did feel left out, even if you don't treat them differently teenagers don't think "rationally" sometimes.

Maybe not specifically ask her to spend time with her sister but I'd have a chat with her to try and establish her feelings about her. You said she's mentioned before her sister doesn't like her - maybe take that as a cue and when there's an opportunity to have a quiet conversation say you've noticed she doesn't engage much with x - why is that? Keep it neutral and non judgemental and between just you and her.

She might tell you a reason you haven't picked up on, or she might just say she's annoying. You could make your comment that you dont expect them to hace much in common now but there could be lots if benefits in having a sister when she's a bit older but her sister might not want to spend time with her if they haven't built a relationship.

Basically I'd let her lead it. If she's adamant she's not bothered about her sister and doesn't want to spend any time with her I'd accept that and just explain she needs to stop being mean to her but other than that you can't force her. However if she says she would like a bit of a better relationship but doesn't know how to go about it encourage that but let it be lead by her what it is and how often.

Would there be an activity that older dd would enjoy too that they could do as a bit of a reset? Horseriding/swimming/trampoline Park/ice skating?

Sometimes having a little sister is a good excuse to do something that a 13 year old might still secretly still fancy but has to pretend they are too old and cool for - Disney on ice or watching one of the films over christmas?

And, conversely, my DB and I are only 2 years apart but have very little to do with each other. We haven’t fallen out at all, we’re just very different people and live 3 hours apart. Now we’re both middle aged, we meet up once per year and that’s plenty for both of us. You just can’t tell how sibling relationships will pan out, and you certainly can’t force it.

I think your post should have been about her bad behaviour towards her sister . It doesn't matter what the age gap . Nobody should be allowed to be unkind to people living in the house. Is she like that towards her brother ?

You are overcompensating her to the detriment of the whole family . You might have a problem further on with the other DCs referring to her as the Golden Child . You do not have to explain or apologise to her for choosing to have another child .
Remember that you are the adult and you and DH are in control of the household .
I know this sounds harsh but outside the situation sometimes it's easier to comment .

At 13 they want to look and be "cool", and having a lil'un tagging behind you is so uncool. They want to look and be like the 20 year old girls we/they see, all dressed the same, hair all done the same, sound the same and most of them look the same too, what with their White Fox stuff and all, all look like they've come out from an instagram/tik tok mould. A 4 year old is too "Baby Born", soo not cool. They don't want "Baby Born", they want "White Fox". Just tell her not to be rude to her little sister, but I wouldn't try and force a relationship. True, you can't give anyone back, neither can you make someone love you or anyone else. Just accept it and move on. You would adore for them to have a relationship. It's not all about what you want. And the sooner you accept it, the easier it'll be for you and your 13 yo.

OP: your suggestion would deliberately and explicitly turn your 4-year-old into a chore for the 13-year-old. Have a think about tiny things you could involve them with both together and with you. But don’t make a big issue of it.

I’m wondering whether your insistence on the sibling relationship rather than a parenting one, even though morally I agree with that, might be hindering things a bit. 13 year olds definitely think that they are closer to being adults than being 4!

I would start asking the 13 year old to babysit occasionally, paid, for a couple of hours at a time. Set some ground rules that this is a job so she needs to look after 4yo as though they are another child they were babysitting for. Interact, feed her, dress her, read her stories etc.

If you’re worried about safety, do it initially when you’re in the house, but busy eg painting the hallway.

The more you push 13yo to interact with 4yo the worse it will be. Just leave it. The only thing I would insist on is speaking nicely to her sister. Don’t worry if they don’t get on now. I really disliked my sister growing up and she disliked me! But have a fantastic relationship with her now as an adult.

It's a big age gap to expect them to really spend time together. I have the same gap with my brother, and at 13 I was far too busy with my friends to have any time for entertaining him. That said, our parents wouldn't have stood for us being rude to each other, and I think you do need to address that with her.

As adults, we're very different people. We only see each other at Christmas and family events, and have a good laugh together, but we never contact each other outside of that. There's no hatred there, we just have our own lives with no crossover.