13 year old has no relationship with 4 year old sister

[Purplekittenfurball]

my 13 barely has a relationship with her 4 year old sister. They also have an 11 year old brother.

13 yo is close to the 11 yo. 11 yo interacts with, is pleasant too, and has a positive relationship with the 4 yo. He will play a bit with her on occasion, engage her in conversation, do a puzzle with her (For example) or admire her dollies when she brings them over to him etc.

13 year old rarely speaks to the 4yo. The only occasions when she will is if she is asking her to stop doing something. In a disgusted or angry tone she will ask her “stop that” or “be quiet” or “cover your mouth”.

I am not expecting the 13 yo to have the same relationship with the 11yo and she has with the 4yo. They are naturally going to have very different interests, where the 13 yo and 11 yo have more in common at the moment. But I would love for them to have some kind of positive relationship. I worry that if they have nothing now- then in a few more years they will still have no relationship and will have lost the chance at a sibling bond.

a 13 yo is always going to be very self centred. I get that. And 4 year olds are kind of annoying when they sing the same song over and over or get upset because they can’t have any more bluey episodes or whatever. But they are both wonderful people. Funny and inquisitive and lively.

am I being ridiculous to ask the 13 yo to spend 10 minutes on each weekend day interacting with her sister? As simple as colouring with her? Or playing with her with some of her old toys?

the 4yo has learnt not to bother talking to her tbh as she just gets snarled at-but loves it when 13 yo has friends over who want to interact with her. 13 yo says that 4yo doesn’t like her….but the 4yo has never had 13 say anything nice to her or play with her, so she probably feels the same- even if she hasn’t said it. Because 11yo does act positively towards her she interacts with him and both enjoy it.

just for clarity- if the 4yo is being naughty or over the top annoying we always intervene. She’s not allowed in 13 yo room. She’s generally a good kid though! ( as is the 13 yo!)

I have tried my best to ensure 13 yo doesn’t feel jealous of her sister. 13 yo has own room. She has at least (usually more)an evening a week with each parent doing activities/ watching films. She spends 1 night a week at grandparents ( which she loves) just her and them. She does extra curricular clubs and recently requested tutoring, which I got for her. She has friends over and I would say is happy in her life.

I love both girls so much and would adore it if they could be friends. I think they could potentially get so much out of building a relationship.

I would never expect or ask 13 or 11 yo to do any parenting of her. They have never been asked to watch her or fix her food or dress her or anything like that. I want them to have a sibling relationship, not a parent/ child one.

is this futile? Is it useless to insist a 13 yo builds a relationship with her sister?

should I just settle for ignore her completely, just don’t be rude to her? Loads of people don’t like their siblings and it doesn’t matter.

should I wait this out and 13 yo will come round when she’s through this tricky stage of puberty? She’ll be nice to her when she’s maybe 15+….or is that too late?

In your first post you emphasised that you never ask her to look after the younger one. I think that’s a mistake. We bond by nurturing. It’s perfectly reasonable for a 13yr old to help her little sister do her coat, to listen to her read, etc. It’s not her responsibility, and shouldn’t be, but it’s a way she can help both you and her little sister.

Mine really stepped up when there was a purpose for what they were asked to do.
‘Play with your brother, please!’ Why would they, what for, they’d rather do their own thing.
‘Can you play with your brother while I get the Christmas decorations out of the attic? I don’t want to drop anything on him!’. That’s an opportunity to help and be useful.

Relationships grow by working together, doing things together, having a purpose, looking after each other. They don’t grow in a vacuum.

Ok Yes I see what you are saying. But. Its not about the kid not being allowed in so the eldest has no privacy but the fact she's a 13 year old child who is being seriously entitled. If the OP stops this now life will be much better for all. You cant seriously agree with this behaviour from a child?

My DC1 and DC3 were 10 years apart and had little in common when DC1 was a teen. As adults they are now close, live in the same city and see each other regularly.

@Pinkpommebear i don’t think the 13 year old is acting well but wanting to have your own room safe from a 4 year old coming in and messing with your stuff isn’t entitled at all it is perfectly understandable that she wants a safe space of her own

why would it cause problems to force a 13 year old to play with a 4 year old? I can't imagine. Do you have teenagers?

You can't force siblings, whatever the age gap, to have a relationship, it needs to grow organically.

The 13 year old needs to be told to be kind and not mean. That is it. OP needs to look at how she treats her children, is she favouring one? is she giving the teenager the impression (knowing that teenagers have an automatically selfish view of things for the most part) that she's being neglected in favour of the cuter small child?

Etc etc.

Its perfectly ok to want privacy. You are all glossing over my point. The 13 year old is being mean to her sister. Do you all agree its ok for the 4 year old to be treated like that? Does the 13 year old deserve more? At the expense of her sister? There can be both. Privacy and respect both ways. Its up to the mother here to teach both.

You made my point again but blamed me on a reverse point? Yes I have 4 children ages from 26 to 12 so yeah I do know what I'm talking about and they are all good kids.

if my parents had tried to force me to do that, when i was a teenager i would have run away. As it was, i was at boarding school so my relationship with my younger sibling was destroyed by that and the age gap.

I get that the OP didn't intend for such a huge gap, but at some point when the 13 year old was 9 she must have realised that if she were successful with TTC, there would be a huge age gap.

whoopie for you.

As you know all children are different. This 13 year old wants to set boundaries with the small child bugging her. Why is that an issue for anyone? especially the mother of both of the children.

For someone calling a 13 yo wanting privacy mean, you have no issue name calling another adult you disagree with.

Has anyone said it’s acceptable for the 13 year old to be unkind to her sister? I haven’t noticed that. Practically everyone has said the parents need to stop any mean or unpleasant behaviour. At the same time, we’re pointing out that no sibling should be forced to play with another, and that the teenagers space and privacy in her bedroom should be respected

He is 13.

What would you expect him to want to spend time for a 4 year old?

Don't force anything and they will likely get on better when they both get older.

I was a similar age when my Mum had another child, a girl. I was 14, my brother was 10 when my sister was born. To be honest I wasn’t interested in my sister in the slightest, which sounds awful but it was how I felt. My brother and me ‘grew up together’ and then along came this baby into the mix! Part of the resentment was because from the word go my parents wanted me to take her out for a walk in her pram (if turned 15 by then), babysit her etc. I had a boyfriend and distinctly remember my cousin seeing me push the pram and jokingly shouted out ‘I’d had the baby?’ He knew she wasn’t mine but I felt so embarrassed I refused to take her out ever again. I was 15, I was working full time, I had a steady boyfriend and I was going out with friends a couple of times a week and the last thing I needed was a little sister I felt. That probably sounds extremely selfish to you but that is what being a teenager is about. Consequently I got married at 19 and left home so didn’t really have much to do with her until she reached her late teens which was when it ‘clicked’ she was a sister and I could maybe talk to her. Unfortunately my Mother had spoiled her to a ridiculous level much more than my brother and myself which brewed up a lot of resentment in us and so as we all grew up we were never close. I’ve tried as she became an adult but to no avail we just have nothing in common due to her being a self centred drama queen caused by DM.
it’s sad as our DM has now passed but I feel it’s too late for a sibling relationship with her and me. My advice would be don’t force your daughter to do anything with your little girl but gently include her in family outings so your all together, don’t spoil your 4 year old in a way that causes resentment within the sibling relationship. It’s hard being a teenager as you know but if you include your eldest daughter in things as well as giving her one to one time hopefully a natural relationship will develop.

I really love my sister, she is 7 years younger, but I think my parents were busy so I was a third parent. Maybe praise the 13 year old if she behaves nicely or ask her occasionally to do something for the younger child ? At dinner maybe "could you cut that up for her" pretend to be occupied, if 13 yr old is nice say so. Doing little things as the the eldest isnt parenting its normal life, if in your family you see help is needed you help. Don't stress to much it will happen naturally. Only sad thing is saying 4 year old doesn't like her.

You can't force a relationship. I think you just have to wait and see if they develop as better relationship when they are older.

I’m 8 years older than my sister. I thought she was a massive pain in the ass when I was a teenager. I really resented her and found her very annoying. She was delighted when I went off to uni. We grew up to be very close as adults. My brother, who I’m closer in age to, less so!

I wouldn’t force your 13 year old to spend time with the 4 year old, but I would insist on treating her with some respect. Maybe remind her she can be a bit annoying every now and again…

I am 10 years older than my sister.
I loved her when she was a baby but the toddler years, urgh.
I was 13/14 and the last thing I wanted was a little toddler bothering me.
I didn't have much to do with her from being about 3 until she was 10. Other than letter her sleep with me when mum put her back in her own bed lol.

My teen years I was too focused on me and looking back, I'm not sure I could tell you much about what she did or who her friends were.
But once I got to 17/18 I started talking to her more and could understand she was younger & needed my help.
I started to look after her more when mum & dad went out & we got to know each other.
By the time she was 10, we were like normal sisters, best mates one min and hated each other the next.
By the time she was 15, we were close & I would go out with her....she was gonna go drinking with her mates anyway, then I went with them to keep an eye on them. We spent a lot more time together as she got older. She would come stay at mine for the weekend. (I moved out when she was 11).
We are very close now.

Give it time & space.
Its really hard for her at 13 to want such a young sibling in her life, but hopefully they will come back together in the future.

There is 11 years age gap between me and my sister there wasn’t any interaction really, I had just started senior school and had new friends and pastimes etc, I didn’t give her a thought until I wanted a bridesmaid and there she was.
We have been close ever since and I would do anything for her .
babies are boring when your at senior school and somewhat embarrassing 😂

I think youre doing a great job you've given the older children their own rooms and you enforce boundaries with the 4yo regarding their space. You try to do activities that appeal to all the kids.
Tbh I think this is a bit of a phase for the eldest maybe shes got something going on that youre not aware of its usually a friendship or boy issue dont force anything for now it will come in time.

@Purplekittenfurball
My brother is 8 years younger than I am. I went to university when he was 10. I really don't know him. I don't remember a lot about my teenage years but he was annoying and occasionally in the summer holidays when I was 17 my mum made me take him with me when I went swimming with my boyfriend.

Now aged 62 and 54 we get on ok but are not that close. I think he is neurodivergant and he's very set in his ways. He has never married which would have made a difference I think.

I care for him but it is a difficult gap.
Our mum is dead and dad is 93. I'm aware I'll have to make an effort to keep in touch once dad goes.

I think what you're doing is right. Just don't force it too much. It will be ok , and they may become closer as the age gap "shrinks" as they get older.