DD (16) physically retaliated in a fight with DS (6). I don’t know what to do.

[CandidPearlWasp]

Hi everyone. I’m having a very tough time with my children and hoping for some advice.

My DD is 16, and my son (her half brother) is 6. DD splits her time 50/50 between our house and my ex husband’s house.

Recently my son has been having behavioural challenges. Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him. In the meantime, he has explosive and sometimes violent meltdowns and everyday tasks are a battle when he’s not getting his way. He has hit, punched, pulled hair, bit, etc. all of us and it’s been awful, but we can usually deescalate the situation, but since he’s a tall boy and weighs 65lbs it does hurt.

Two weeks ago my DD was in her bedroom watching something on her iPad, which her father bought for her. We do not have one for my son, so he’s been very intrigued by it and she’s let him use it before. This time, he went in and said he wanted to play on it. She said no. He started to have a verbal meltdown and she said “I said no, get out of my room please”. This escalated into him climbing onto her bed, hitting her in the face and pulling her hair. She then grabbed him by the hair, got off the bed by standing up while holding his hair and dragged him out of her room and across the hall by the hair. He was screaming in pain and fear and she threw him into his room, said “that doesn’t feel good, does it?” and slammed the door.

I was outside as this happened and alerted by the nanny cam we have downstairs. I rushed in and ran into my 6 year old’s room to calm him down, as he was wailing. My 16 year old came in and got angry with me saying it’s all always about him, even though he was “a little psycho who attacked her”. I told her that I understood it’s not okay he attacked her, but he’s a small child and what she did wasn’t okay. She left for her father’s that night and hasn’t been back, is barely speaking to me and won’t speak to or apologize to her brother. She’s made it clear to me she thinks she did nothing wrong.

I’m at a loss - about how to handle my son, how to reconnect with my daughter and how to move forward as a family.

He got a taste of his own medicine.

It hurt.
Hopefully he learns from it
I don't believe your daughter should be forced to apologise

I think I'm with your DD on this one too OP. It's a terrible situation for you all but at 16 she is also still a child and it must be awful for her to suffer attacks from her brother. She had clearly had enough and she reacted - I don't think you can blame her for this. I actually have a bit of a problem with thinking that physically attacking someone is kind of acceptable because they have ADHD or another diagnosis. It's not OK. Obviously in the real world, if someone is attacked and hurt then an ADHD diagnosis is no defence - nor should it be.

Perhaps your DD should stay and her fathers for the time being where she is safe. I hope you are able to understand that as a child she doesn't have the same patience or understanding as you - you're his Mum, that is a totally different relationship to that of a sibling. I hope you are able to get some support for your son because this violent behaviour is not OK to continue. Keep pushing and researching all the avenues that are available where you can help and support.

I suspect "dragged by the hair" too means "steered by the hair" - I'm assuming he was on his feet and walking, not sliding across the floor.

I am also on Team DD. She deserves not to be attacked and 6 is old enough to know better or to have been taught better and to learn how to handle a NO. Actions have consequences. Your son, whatever his challenges, needs to learn how to control him violent impulses, otherwise he will find himself in many situations where he gets hurt.

Violence is never okay but I think for both of your children’s safety and wellbeing they need to be apart.

I am with your daughter - and feel sorry for her as it does sound like you are hugely prioritising your youngest.
ODD or ADHD - he doesn’t get to hurt family members with no consequences.
Waiting for therapy isn't an answer. You need to step up parenting and consequences.

And he didn't’ need to be coddled after the incident - it needed to he a teaching moment to show him what he does to others.
6 yo is not too young to understand it.

So glad to see such a knowledgeable and sensible post.

Yeah unfortunately this is how it will go if he continues to attack her - she’s a child too and deserves protection here. You’ll need to be much closer to him in future.

in all honesty I’m not sure what you think she should have done? Just let him attack her?

I can see why she lashed out. If he’d done that to a peer then he’d be at the risk of worse injury because his behaviour is extreme and it’s unfair to expect dd to take violence from him. I’d call it self defence tbh. She asked him nicely and he ignored that - in the real world he probably wouldn’t get a chance to solve things without force.

I think that she’s done the right thing going to her dad’s for her safety. Your expectations of her are wildly unreasonable and she shouldn’t be at the risk of sibling violence.

How do you generally deal with his violence. You need to have zero tolerance. My son used to have an issue with aggression and every time he even made an attempt he was sent to his room for the rest of the day with access to nothing except books. He was allowed out for meals and then straight back. It was really tough and in the beginning it would just be hours of blocking the door but it worked in the long run and he hasn't been aggressive in almost two years. Your daughter reacted badly but what is being done to correct his behaviour?

So we have the OP who lives with these children and knows what they have told her and we have your suspicions. So hard to decide what to believe.

OP, our 5yo has similar issues and when he’s dysregulated I am on him and his brother like glue. No cleaning, no cooking. Just safety management. When I can catch things sooner we don’t have to go that far but usually no cooking when he’s home from school. It sucks but safety first.

In calm times I spend an insane amount of time and energy on teaching him social and emotional skills. I am never mad at him for having the big feelings and he can cry and yell (but not verbally attack) and ask for hugs. He can ask for problem solving - the explosive child is a great resource.

If he hits when dysregulated he’s on the naughty step which will be a LOT harder at 6yo to introduce than at 2 yo. It’s now his calm down place and I sit there to calm down too.

Your daughter needs a big apology and strategies to keep her and her things safe. Both your kids need extra attention and love.

It’s hard unfair and all consuming but my biggest fear is letting this traumatize or alienate my other child, my second fear is not teaching my explosive child the skills he needs to succeed and stay out of jail.

OP it’s your response to this that matters the most here and it is entirely possible that this incident will help your son work out what is acceptable behavior and what isn’t. If you pander to him and condone his behavior over hers, he may learn a completely different lesson and the situation continues…

You need to listen to her when she said: it’s all always about him.

She is telling you that she feels his behaviour is supported or at least accepted, while when she is attacked no one apologises for this and instead tells her that she shouldn't have retaliated. Is it the age gap that is the issue here - what if she had been the same age and retaliated - would that be ok?

It sounds like she feels very overlooked and marginalised, and is expected to put up with being subject to physical violence in her own home. And to all of those saying get a lock for her door - why should she be trapped in her room when she is not the aggressor here?

If his behaviour is not under control - and it clearly is not - then maybe it is best that she stays with her father for the time being, but if you offer that to her then make it clear that it is entirely her own choice, that she is not being pushed out and that it is only until you find a way to manage his behaviour, which you are making an absolute priority because you want her to come home.

It sounds like she has experienced his poor behaviour in the past and has seen it glossed over time and again, and now she is at her wit's end. People are entitled to defend themselves when they are attacked - the level of her response here obviously sounds significant from the way you have described what you saw on the recording - but unless she has behaved this way towards other people then this was a one-off situation where she just felt pushed to the brink.

It’s a pity it had to come to this. But my sympathies are with dd, attacked in her own room. Hopefully the brother has learned that you can’t just physically attack people if they don’t give you what you want. She’s not the collateral damage for his alleged special needs. This behaviour will only get worse when he goes through puberty. As a male especially he needs to understand the word no. It’s up to you as the parent to both correct him and protect your daughter, not chastise her for self defence.

Have you told her what you wanted/expected her to do instead in this situation, and what she should do in your opinion if it happens again? (Don't assume she knows). Have you taken steps to effectively prevent your son from going into your daughter's room uninvited, and told her about those? Have you acknowledged that she was hurt? Have you required, expected, or coached HIM to apologise to HER?

If not, I kind of agree with your daughter. Yes she shouldn't hit someone smaller than her (at 16, she may not fully understand the damage she could do). Yes, she might need more help understanding her brother's limitations and why in this one very specific case, she might need to make some adjustments to her natural and very healthy instincts to protect herself and prevent further harm. But for god's sake don't punish her for HAVING those instincts; she needs them!! And at 16 she also needs to feel safe at home, and like her mother is protecting her, and that she also matters. I can understand if she doesn't feel that way right now.

It's a use of language thing, not a belief thing. If OP returns and clarifies, that would be helpful.

Sorry, what? You think a 16 year old girl shouldn’t be able to defend herself. She didn’t beat him to a pulp, she stopped his unprovoked assault and removed him from the space to preserve her safety. If you genuinely think women and girls should have to put up with stuff like this then I sincerely hope you don’t have any daughters.

Edited for typo.

I'm not making it up. I'm asking where you would stand if it was a man dragging a small child around by his hair? Im just wondering which classes of people on Mumsnet are within their rights to drag a small child around by their hair.

A 16 year old should know better. It was not self defence. People are expecting an ND 6 year old to control himself, while praising a 16 yo for failing to control herself. Make it make sense.

Frankly? Good for her whichever version it was.

Your daughter isn’t collateral damage to your son’s special needs. He may learn more from her reaction to his bad behavior than any therapy could teach him.

Women are allowed to resist male violence, whether or not there is a discrepancy in age. That's what makes sense.

It's your job to manage your son's behaviour but you didn't so DD did it for you.

I'm not surprised she's moved out, you have shown you can't stop him from attacking her and then told her she can't either so staying at yours means accepting being beaten up by a 6 yo.

It won't be long before something similar happens again, at school or elsewhere, as other children will only take so much before they hit back.

My younger brother and I got into a fight and he lost his temper and hit me, when we were about 9 and 14, and my Mum told him that men who hit women ended up in jail and what the other prisoners did to him would be much worse than anything the legal system could do. That was the last time that happened.

She dragged him out by his hair. That's not self defence. There were a million things she could have done before she escalated to that.

Nobody's expecting the 6yo to control himself. They're expecting his parents to control/direct and protect both him and his sibling.