DD (16) physically retaliated in a fight with DS (6). I don’t know what to do.

[CandidPearlWasp]

Hi everyone. I’m having a very tough time with my children and hoping for some advice.

My DD is 16, and my son (her half brother) is 6. DD splits her time 50/50 between our house and my ex husband’s house.

Recently my son has been having behavioural challenges. Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him. In the meantime, he has explosive and sometimes violent meltdowns and everyday tasks are a battle when he’s not getting his way. He has hit, punched, pulled hair, bit, etc. all of us and it’s been awful, but we can usually deescalate the situation, but since he’s a tall boy and weighs 65lbs it does hurt.

Two weeks ago my DD was in her bedroom watching something on her iPad, which her father bought for her. We do not have one for my son, so he’s been very intrigued by it and she’s let him use it before. This time, he went in and said he wanted to play on it. She said no. He started to have a verbal meltdown and she said “I said no, get out of my room please”. This escalated into him climbing onto her bed, hitting her in the face and pulling her hair. She then grabbed him by the hair, got off the bed by standing up while holding his hair and dragged him out of her room and across the hall by the hair. He was screaming in pain and fear and she threw him into his room, said “that doesn’t feel good, does it?” and slammed the door.

I was outside as this happened and alerted by the nanny cam we have downstairs. I rushed in and ran into my 6 year old’s room to calm him down, as he was wailing. My 16 year old came in and got angry with me saying it’s all always about him, even though he was “a little psycho who attacked her”. I told her that I understood it’s not okay he attacked her, but he’s a small child and what she did wasn’t okay. She left for her father’s that night and hasn’t been back, is barely speaking to me and won’t speak to or apologize to her brother. She’s made it clear to me she thinks she did nothing wrong.

I’m at a loss - about how to handle my son, how to reconnect with my daughter and how to move forward as a family.

Your follow up still defends your son and still places your daughter as the bad guy.
Everything she has said seems bang on the money.

You need to make an effort. Take her out. Just the two of you. Build a relationship with her.

Or just carry on only focusing on your son.

OP, it is your job to be the adult here. All you are doing is throwing your hands up and saying what can I do about my violent child other than ask my older child to put up with it and never retaliate so he doesn't get upset.

There's an opportunity here for DS to learn something important here. People won't feel safe to be around him if he hurts them, and even though his sister loves him, right now she doesn't feel safe. Then let him know that you and your DP, his parents, are going to help him learn to deal with his feelings better, without hitting and hurting people.

DD needs space and time. Sadly, I'm not surprised she doesn't want to come round just yet, because you are showing no consideration of her needs whatsoever. I'm sure she loves you, and her little brother, but you haven't provided a safe environment for her. I suspect that actions and not words will need to happen and over time she may come to see things have improved when you have had the help, and she may feel she can try visiting again when it's safer.

In the meantime, you can offer to visit her outside of the home on neutral ground, without your younger son present, to ensure you keep that connection and let her know you're willing to meet and talk when she is ready.

In the US I think it’s the CPS (Child Protective Services).

Why are missing out the bit about the DD being assaulted?

OP, there’s a lot of people on here advocating for your daughter. It’s about time you did the same.

MissDoubleU, that was a sad read. I hope you continue to heal.
Valuable advice given by you. I hope it's acted upon.

OP, what do you think will be the harm to your son as a result of your dd defending herself? Because I belong to a rougher time when we would have assumed your dd's reaction would be a proper learning experience which he desperately needs.

@CandidPearlWasp your dd is very clued up.
And I’d cherish the fact she feels able to stand up to you and the current home organisation. Seriously. This is a very good strength to have (talking as someone struggling with cPTSD).

You really need to realise that YES, the whole house is irganised around him.
You might not have wanted that. I suspect you didn’t plan fur that either.
But by default, 50% of tge tine, you only have your ds there. The whole house is organised around him. You’re used to de escalate, deal with the meltdowns etc…. He is taking the whole space.
And then your dd comes for the other 50% and im betting you’re expecting her to slot in the organisation as it is. Which means she has to fit around him. And her life when she is with you is all about him…

Listen to her.
It’s not just how she feels. That’s very likely that it is how it is. Even if you didn’t intent to.

Next steps?
Working in your ds behaviour. Violence has to be tackled.
Stop making excuses. Assessment or not, you need to find a way. Starting with: is he violent at school too? Because if he usnt or isn’t as violent, he has the ability to control himself more than you think. Give him some justice tyere. He might be more able than you think.
And if he isn’t, I assume he is at special school because there’s no way a normal school would cope with that level of violence. In which case,nwhat dimthey do? How do they handle it? Do you need training (eg in restraining) etc…. If you have professionals who can help, lean on them!

As for your dd, you absolutely need to validate her feelings.
You need to say Sorry and acknowledge she ended up right at the bottom of your priority list.
You need to tell her you’re happy she is with her dad and feel safe there.
And you need to tell her you’re ha live her. She is important to her. And whilst you accept she doesn’t want to move back with you, you want to see her. Whatvwoukd be a good compromise further her? Ask her. Spend a day together at tge well End? Not at your house. Whatever.
Oh and sort things out with your ex too re maintenance etc…. don’t assume you’ll be back to 50/50 in a few weeks. But agree with your ex a best move forward so she can settle down again and you can rebuild trust with her. Knowing this might well mean she’ll never live with you again. She might not even want to be there EOW. And I feel you need to respect that.

You're still focussing more on how she's making you all feel than on her.

She shouldn't be having to give in to whims to stop meltdowns.

It's your job to help him regulate and that's not by giving in to every whim. It's about managing his sensory inputs and outlets, it's about providing routines, play therapy, attention and supervision.

You also need to be giving your daughter one on one time, entirely about her and you need to take her emotional wellbeing I to consid ration.

And btw your ds being sad she isn’t there anymore isn’t the most pressing problem.
That’s just puttimg him at the centre of everything again.

When on this occasion, it should be your dd you concentrate on.

This is all very sensible but to address the 'can control themselves at school's my son can control himself for 3-6 hours in optimal conditions. He holds in the small upsets and they come out later. They do however always come out. That's not to say we accept aggression.

Op the things that helped us are high, and I mean HIGH, levels of exercise. We spend 2-3 hours a day running round, doing gymnastics, dog walking, at trampoline parks, softplay, I flatable parks, cycling, every single day. On school days we cycle to school, he then has after school where he runs round or plays in the softplay, 1 evening a week he has gymnastics, 2 evenings a week he goes to the park in summer or in winter has trampoline, once a week he goes swimming and the weekend is outlet after outlet, swim, as sports club, cycle, softplay etc etc. that alone gives us a massive improvement.

A quiet space to calm where we consistently take him (and have done since toddler Dom) to regulate when worked up. We help by staying with him, soft lighting, beanbag cuddly toys, fidgets, sometimes screens and we regulate his nervous system. Every single time and encourage him to do it when he feels himself worked up so he doesn't get to an aggressive stage.

That's NOT what I'd do if he attacked someone. If he throws or kicks etc I WILL sit with him with a weighted blanket on him doing sensory regulation BUT as soon as that passes we'll discuss what's happened and the consequences. He doesn't really improve with punishment as such but he's good at repair. He'll be contrite, he'll tidy messes he's caused, he'll apologise and try to fix any upsets he's caused once he's calmed down. He has however never actually hurt anyone but me because I'm constantly aware of his emotions all regulation state and if he's dysregulated I drop everything and stay close. I'd be feeling a massive personal failing for letting my kids attack each other. You need to address his emotional regulation first and your own lack of adequate supervision.

You also need to leave him with his dad regularly and give your daughter total one on one time. Dad needs to take him out to softplay or whatever to give you time and space at home with your daughter. She should be a priority and just isn't here. We divide and conquer with our kids. Once a week dad takes our daughter to a class she loves them out for a treat, I take ds to a play therapy session ans for a snack. The other weekend day we swap. We also try to an activity all 4 of us. You need to be consistent.

When my DS had violent meltdowns i insist he goes to his room, or just away from me. I make sure he is safe, i offer zero comfort or words on it.

I take care of the person he has hurt, be that me, or his sister, as we were usually the ones on the end of it.

Then a bit later, when the person hurt has been tended,i will go to his room, double check he isn't injured, help him calm down if he is still unregulated, then have an age appropriate conversation about what just happened, what wasn't acceptable from him, and what to do differently next time.

In this case, i DO NOT discipline for the meltdown, they're literally not in control, however, i DO make clear that the behaviour leading up to it - IE not taking no for an answer, and not leaving his sisters room when asked - is absolutely unacceptable.

You need to understand that your DS will cry after he's been violent, he's only 6, it will upset him.. but you have to make sure the other person is cared for first, then check on DS.

This is all very sensible but to address the 'can control themselves at school's my son can control himself for 3-6 hours in optimal conditions. He holds in the small upsets and they come out later. They do however always come out. That's not to say we accept aggression.

Yep well aware of that. Dc2 was like that.
But what I’m saying is that, even though it’s clearly hard on the child, There is an ELEMENT of control there. It’s not a situation where nothing can be done but containing the situation iyswim.
And it very much feels the OP diesnt feel her ds has that agency/control. She diffuses situations, de escalate. She doesn’t teach him to self regulate. She doesn’t teach him to have some wind down time when he comes back from school etc….

When my DS had violent meltdowns i insist he goes to his room, or just away from me. I make sure he is safe, i offer zero comfort or words on it.
I did the same.
My mantra was ‘you can come out when you are calm and feel you can be nice to people’
I am aware though that it might not work with ODD

Very good points. I think a lot of us have picked up on the vibe that OP is over focused on her DS to the neglect of her Dd. This will take a LOT of work to repair, if the op even wants to for the right reasons, not just to soothe her own feelings.

I completely agree with everything @Over40Overdatinghas said.
It appears from your post that DS is your main concern and DD is an afterthought.

Make her a priority for a while.

Yet again you are defending your violent DS far too much. Your DD no longer feels safe and secure in your house and has had the presence of mind to move to her Dad's. She must be mightily relieved that she had that option.

If I were her I wouldn't give a shit whether your violent brat of a DS wanted to apologise or not. That wouldn't suddenly make things OK. I would never be able to trust him again because I'd know he would do it again (as he has in the past too) and you would again be there to cuddle and soothe him while ignoring or berating her. He will also only get much bigger and stronger.

Your DS's behaviour, and your continual failure to deal with it and ensure the safety of others has now cost you your relationship with your DD. You didn't prioritise her or her feelings at all and were totally ineffectual at keeping her safe.

Poor girl. I am not surprised she is furious and barely wants to know you. Sometimes "sorry" just isn't enough. That's also a lesson that your DS is going to have to learn right now. You can't just say sorry for disgraceful and violent behaviour and then things are suddenly magically hunky dory again because you have broken the trust. That holds true whether you are 6 years old or 60.

Of course she did.

I don’t blame her for saying she won’t come back and she probably won’t. Thankfully she has a home at her dad’s where it sounds like she can go to. But how sad that her relationship with her mother has been ruined probably permanently because of her half brother. She’s very unlikely to ever forgive her mother for continually prioritising him over her. And god knows how that sort of rejection might mess her up.

Hi @CandidPearlWasp That must be really awful. I think you need to take this step by step. First rebuild your relationship with DD. See her one to one. She has needs herself, things she needs specifically from you because you are her Mum, and it's as if you can't see her needs at all because she is older and bigger and because DS's needs seem so much bigger and more immediate. She is vulnerable too and she still needs you to be there for her.

And reassure DS that although DD is very angry and she doesn't want to see him right now he needs to give her time and she may want to see him again in future. He can apologise when she is ready to see him. He could try writing her an apology card and sending it. It might help. Though that doesn't let him out of saying sorry in person - or her either - when she is ready.

I am sorry you have to navigate this!

Assault is a legal category. A six year old can't assault anyone; a 16 year old can. As I've said upthread, I think his behaviour was appalling but hers was literally criminal and, unlike most posters, I actually do think that's really quite a significant difference, that there is no 'turnaround is fair play' if someone the size of an adult uses anything other than completely necessary and proportionate restraining force against a young child.

I feel a lot of sympathy for the DD (I also, again unlike most posters, feel a lot for OP) but I do think her behaviour was completely wrong in a way that apparently few others do. I actually think people would feel very differently if they - as OP has, via camera - had seen the reality of what a 16 year old attacking a 6 year old (yes, even one who's big for their age) would look like, and how very far from self defence it would be.

Well the DD has very sensibly removed herself from the situation so no more risk of "assault".

Have you actually apologised to her?

Sounds like your dd feels like she is not a priority and it will be for very good reasons you have to give ds more attention but her feeling are valid.

I would accept what she has said, that she wont be around for a while and focus on having some individual time with her. Take her out for a weekly dinner or activity once a week. Work on your relationship with her, when she feels a bit better you can look at possibly bringing her back to the house again. Dont mention ds missing her etc that is not fair.

For ds explain sis at her dad's, we won't see her for a while, yes we miss her but she needs something space at the moment. Not blaming him but explaining she wont be here so he can get his head around that.

I also feel a lot of sympathy for OP for it being a horrible situation to be caught between two of your children and she must be upset and exhausted. However, I do also feel frustrated with OP as I don't think she understands the reality of the situation. She cannot meet the needs of both her children. She is expecting the same level of adult acceptance, understanding and maturity from a 16 year old towards her sibling as she has as his mother. And that isn't fair. The outcome OP wants is for DD to come back, apologise and play happy families until the next violent meltdown, and that's not fair on either sibling. I get that OP is struggling, probably in survival mode and just getting through the day. But she needs to think longer term. Both her children deserve to be safe. DD has reached the end of her tolerance for the lack of physical safety for her, and that puts the younger child at risk. Therefore the best outcome here is DD lives with her dad and has minimal contact with her brother at the moment. Thank goodness she does have another parent to live with full time. It actually helps OP out here as she can focus on supporting the younger child and engaging with the help that hopefully won't be too far away.

I don't think most pp here are condoning the DD's actions, but acknowledging there are mitigating factors, in the same way as there are mitigating factors for OP's son's meltdowns and issues with impulse control. It's very sad, but reality needs to be faced here. There is no world in which OP can have both children safely living at home at the present time and she needs to work out how she can build bridges with DD and start to get a handle on her DS behaviour.

The outcome OP wants is for DD to come back, apologise and play happy families until the next violent meltdown

Im not picking on you specifically because we are broadly in agreement but can people please stop referring to this child’s appalling behaviour as a “violent meltdown”. A meltdown is a specific thing. This kid has no diagnosis, therefore it is not a meltdown. He had a tantrum because he was told no. Six year olds should know better and this one probably would if his mother hadn’t pampered him into having tantrums when someone says no to him.