DD (16) physically retaliated in a fight with DS (6). I don’t know what to do.

[CandidPearlWasp]

Hi everyone. I’m having a very tough time with my children and hoping for some advice.

My DD is 16, and my son (her half brother) is 6. DD splits her time 50/50 between our house and my ex husband’s house.

Recently my son has been having behavioural challenges. Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him. In the meantime, he has explosive and sometimes violent meltdowns and everyday tasks are a battle when he’s not getting his way. He has hit, punched, pulled hair, bit, etc. all of us and it’s been awful, but we can usually deescalate the situation, but since he’s a tall boy and weighs 65lbs it does hurt.

Two weeks ago my DD was in her bedroom watching something on her iPad, which her father bought for her. We do not have one for my son, so he’s been very intrigued by it and she’s let him use it before. This time, he went in and said he wanted to play on it. She said no. He started to have a verbal meltdown and she said “I said no, get out of my room please”. This escalated into him climbing onto her bed, hitting her in the face and pulling her hair. She then grabbed him by the hair, got off the bed by standing up while holding his hair and dragged him out of her room and across the hall by the hair. He was screaming in pain and fear and she threw him into his room, said “that doesn’t feel good, does it?” and slammed the door.

I was outside as this happened and alerted by the nanny cam we have downstairs. I rushed in and ran into my 6 year old’s room to calm him down, as he was wailing. My 16 year old came in and got angry with me saying it’s all always about him, even though he was “a little psycho who attacked her”. I told her that I understood it’s not okay he attacked her, but he’s a small child and what she did wasn’t okay. She left for her father’s that night and hasn’t been back, is barely speaking to me and won’t speak to or apologize to her brother. She’s made it clear to me she thinks she did nothing wrong.

I’m at a loss - about how to handle my son, how to reconnect with my daughter and how to move forward as a family.

This update makes it all worse. So the poor girl has repeatedly tolerated being assaulted for "only" a minute - I'd say she's shown great restraint to only reach her breaking point now.

Also 105lb is tiny - this isn't a burly adult man who could easily restrain your son without hurting him.

Did you actually use the "DS is missing you" line to her? Like you carried on revolving everything around him?

@CandidPearlWasp

Seriously OP. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️
I feel so sorry for your daughter. To have a mother who so clearly does not care about her and prioritises the little prince of a brother.

No amount of ‘training to handle his tantrums’ will teach you to love and protect your eldest child. If you don’t have it in you to love her - you don’t.
And she’ll be better off to stay with her other parent who wants to take care of her, protect her and listen to her.

This. Does her father know you regularly let your son abuse her because you have piss poor parenting skills and are raising a brat who’s violent when he doesn’t get his own way?
You’re a terrible parent.
I hope your daughter goes NC with you for her own safety and reports the assaults to whatever the US equivalent of social services is.

I suggested before that you shouldn't ask your daughter to apologise, but in good time, not now, when the dust has settled a bit, maybe you could ask her to think of something nice but unrelated she can say to her half brother.

It probably isn't a bad thing that she's taking some time out by staying with her father, as long as it doesn't go on too long.

I'm sure she's hurt and angry, but at the same time she probably does recognise that what happened was not her finest hour and feels bad about that too, which if anything is just as unfair on her. It isn't her fault she hasn't been trained in behaviour management and safe restraint, and anyway she shouldn't have to resort to these in her personal space.

I hope she feels better soon. Meanwhile you'd better explain to DS that his sister is taking a break with her Dad, and maybe he could draw or make something nice to give her.

I'm sorry that some people are lavishing blame on you and your parenting - I doubt if you need anyone to do that for you. Offering a hug.

I have worked with SN families for many years, and it is truly heart-breaking how 99% of their lives revolve around the one with SN. It does not HAVE to be like that. No wonder your daughter and others are so resentful.

You’re right. But there’s no evidence at all that this kid has SN. He has no diagnosis. What he does have is a mother who panders to his every whim, thinks the sun shines out of his arse despite his violence and awful behaviour and lets him abuse and assault his sister when he’s told no.
Thats not special needs, that’s piss poor parenting of a feral brat.

So what if he melts down? Will the world end? BTW until he’s diagnosed it’s a tantrum not a meltdown. Start teaching him how to deal with his emotions in non-violent ways. Have you always permitted him to use violence? When did you start accept violence from him?

I agree with others that your relationship with DD needs some intensive repair of just the two of you. Meet her somewhere other than home. Take her out for a meal or coffee, go for a walk together, get your nails done together, or something where it’s just the two of you. Absolutely no DS and stop talking about him to her.

As for DS being upset that DD hasn’t come back, try using it as a teaching moment. Teach him that if you hit someone, or ignore them saying no or just generally be shitty to them then sometimes they won’t want to spend time with you anymore. If he wants to apologise then help him write a letter to DD or he could do a drawing or something. Keep it aside and only give it to her once you’ve repaired the mother-daughter relationship.

Is your daughter right and everything does revolve around him? I would let the dust settle and in the meantime help your son make her a lovely card to say sorry so he see that it’s important to make amends whilst it’s putting no pressure on your daughter to have a conversation that she doesn’t want to have.
My eldest child is Autistic, socially he struggles… he can say the most hurtful things when he’s spiralling and thinks that an ‘I’m sorry’ after makes everything ok….
Ive told him often that giving an apology in a heartfelt way is important, however you can’t force someone to accept it. They have to do that in their own time and keeping on about how sorry you are doesn’t help.
If your daughter won’t communicate with you, you can try writing to her, but you can’t force someone to hear you out until they are ready to listen, given the nature of what is happening at home she probably is right that everything does revolve around him and you placate him to avoid a meltdown We all do it as we want the easier path, however one thing I have learnt is that there are some things you can’t just ignore or give in on, a line has to be drawn and if a melt down happens then it’s not the end of the world.

What are you and dh doing when he attacks her in that one minute, you must be close by to get him to stop so quickly, what leads up to him attacking her in the first place. What happens afterwards, how do you de escalate the situation. Your daughter isn't safe in her own room or when you're nearby, does your son have any consequences for attacking her. He could write her a letter saying sorry but not mention he misses her. Dies he go to school, does he attack anyone there.

OP parenting a child like your DS is incredibly tough. I appreciate you feel lost and that you are not getting the support you need.

However, it does sound like you’ve allowed him to dominate the household, and ignored the impact on your DD. You’ve allowed it to go on for some time without providing DD with the support she needs to deal with a brother with DS’s issues or, most probably, to deal with being a teenager on the cusp of adulthood in a stressful and competitive world. It’s been going on for years, and it’s only now that she’s finally cracked that you are even beginning to acknowledge that what DD’s been going through is inappropriate. Even so, you don’t seem to have a plan for stopping it happening again.

Be honest with yourself here - would it actually be in her best interests to split her time between your and her dad’s house, or is her dad’s house a far more suitable environment for her? As PPs said, all your focus here is the impact on you and your DS, you really haven’t shown any concern for or insight into what would be best for her.

You can’t expect to fix this overnight. It may well take months and months to fix just your relationship with her. She feels massively betrayed by your focus on her brother at her expense. She isn’t seeing your struggle in that, but she isn’t wrong that you’ve let her down. And now your focus doesn’t seem to be about rebuilding that trust and making her feel loved and valued by you, but in getting her to drop her defences, go back to how things were, and stop demanding you prioritise her. Stop talking with her about what you want her to do. Just try and be supportive of her. Fix your relationship with her before you consider trying to see if coming back to stay at yours and see her DB again is on the cards.

And if she does end up at her dad’s permanently, for God’s sake don’t let that make you deprioritize her even further. She must be feeling so abandoned by you right now - which is hugely damaging for a child. Make sure you make time to take her out every week and talk about her, to text/call her every day to say good morning/good night and tell her that you love her, to stay involved in school, hobbies, and future plans.

Teach him that if you hit someone, or ignore them saying no....

This is another point. He's six now, but one day he'll be sixteen. He MUST learn that no means no.

I agree

I get that it’s difficult but every time you comfort him, because he’s the child that’s wailing, you give him a clear message that his violence will be met by care and comfort, and you communicate to your DD that she is responsible for avoiding him kicking off, and needs to basically accept him attacking her if she can’t change her behaviour to stop him getting to that point. Can you really not see how harmful and dangerous that messaging is for both of them.

An apology is only worthwhile if it is accompanied by a change in behaviour. It sounds like your son thinks he just needs to say sorry and everything will go back to normal. Until next time. And there will be a next time, because no one seems able to set boundaries and hold them.

Yes it’s much harder with neurodivergent kids, I have two, one of whom was prone to violence. We’ve held a very hard line, violence isn’t acceptable in our home, my DD has had to find other ways to express herself with our help. Violence is met with firm challenge and clear consequences every single time, when she was younger we had to manage the household so she couldn’t be violent to her younger brother, because he deserves to be safe. “She can’t help it” only goes so far, because she can’t be kicking off in school or in the community, she’ll come up against someone bigger and stronger who will kick her head in - so holding a firm line, seeking alternative ways to process feelings and clear consequences are as much about her safety as anything else. This is one place where gentle parenting just doesn’t work.

In your shoes I’d leave your DD safe where she is, maintain contact with her with absolutely no pressure to accept or understand your DSs behaviour, or to hear or accept his apology. Just focus on your relationship with her and where you need to rebuild that. I’d explain to your DS that he needs your help to manage his behaviour and then really work on that with him. He needs to know, in an age appropriate way, that his sister needs space just now and while that’s hard for him, he needs to let it rest.

OP, try not to think of it as your daughter being in the wrong. She did something wrong but it's understandable and can be worked through.

Your daughter may also find social communication difficult - it's often a family condition.

Well your update @CandidPearlWasp has only confirmed what I said yesterday that your daughter is doing exactly the right thing by staying away , you don’t deal with your sons behaviour you simply pander to it and expect everyone else to do the same . I appreciate that your son has his problems but that doesn’t excuse attacking other people and he has finally found out that his behaviour is unacceptable.

Yeah you’re update proves your daughters point! Sorry but you come across horribly in the update

If you believe that, I have a lovely bridge to sell you. Unfortunately I know far too much about hair pulling, having been on the receiving end from my (NT) brat of a younger sister hundreds of times. I had mid length hair, she had short hair. Retaliation was impossible because there was nothing to grip on. I couldn't have dragged her anywhere!
And yes, I did read the OP before you ask.

OP I’d like to issue you a very stern warning here. I grew up in a house where my brother’s violent behaviour was never checked, and I was never safeguarded from it. My mum used his possible SEN to justify his outbursts and it became the norm that anything I did could potentially aggravate him. I grew up on eggshells knowing that any wrong move or word could trigger a violent meltdown of which I was the target.

This young boy grew into a very large man who continued to beat me down when he felt he couldn’t handle life or what was happening, or quite frankly when he didn’t get his way. It was always excused. It actually became so “the norm” that my mum would easily joke about it. It took me until my - get this - 30’s to confront and acknowledge this childhood abuse and accept this wasn’t the norm. I have had extensive therapy for diagnosed CPTSD but let me assure you, it has ruined my life.

I grew into a young woman who accepted abuse from friends and then partners. Knowing intellectually it was wrong but having a complete blind spot to be able to defend myself. I have had no contact with my own family for 20 years now and there is nothing that could happen, or could be said, that will ever change that.

I am so relieved that your daughter can escape to her father’s house and be protected there. Hopefully your daughter will continue to defend herself to you when you continue to coddle the violent child and refuse to protect her. But take this as a warning. She has every right in the world to be furious and if you don’t accept how terribly you’ve handled this, and how terribly you’ve responded again (emotionally manipulating her by saying the violent child misses her? Come on now..) then you very genuinely need to be prepared to lose her from your life.

My DD is truly furious with me and my DH and my DS. When I tried to talk to her she said the entire house revolves around him, we expect her to give in to his every whim so he doesn’t have meltdowns

Is she right?

Are you avoiding parenting/addressing his behaviour for fear of sparking a meltdown?

Are there firm boundaries and when he hits out?

Does he get his way a lot because you fear upsetting him?

Your update is very disappointing.

You are still defending your son and your decision to go to him first because he reacted loudest.

Your dd is probably conditioned to minimise her feelings because of her brother. Just because she is easier than him, doesn’t mean that she doesn’t need you too. You show very little empathy for her situation and the fact that you clearly centre the whole household on her brother’s needs. I bet she’s taken plenty of outbursts without a murmur and wanted you to prioritise her feelings just this once. She is owed apologies from you and her brother. (I can’t comment on her stepdad as he’s not really mentioned here but a stepparent prioritising their biological child and relationship is hardly unusual.)

It’s good that your dd had somewhere else to go. If you meet up with her don’t tell her that her brother is sad and wants to see her because a guilt trip will cement her feelings that you prioritise his feelings over hers. See her somewhere neutral and don’t talk about or tell you son about the meeting. Make some time just for her, doing what makes jyou r happy. I know that you’re probably tired providing that for your son but your dd has told you how she feels and you need to listen and respect her pov. Stop with the “but her brother” stuff. You don’t have to constantly defend him just because you love him - that much is obvious. Your dd is the sibling of a child with SN and deserves to be the centre of the world sometimes too. Make some time for her before she turns into an adult and it’s too late.

This, with bells on. OP, you sound very wrapped up with your new family, and the suspected special needs of your son. In the meantime your poor daughter seems to be expected to put up with his awful behaviour, while you fail to manage the situation and protect her. Your language says it all. Have you even asked yourself whether his reaction was due to frustrated rage at not getting what he wanted and surprise at being challenged, rather than pain or fear? What about your DD's pain and fear?

Was your new DP present? What was his reaction?

Your DD is 16 years old. She should be studying hard, making life choices for the future and being supported by both her parents. Soon she will probably be flying the nest, and and at this rate she won't be in any rush to return to you. Please think hard about that. I feel very sorry for your DD, as do many other posters. You owe her an apology.

I am the “ normal “ sister of a son with challenging behaviour on whom the lions share of my parents’ ( especially father) attention was lavished. Having to be good because my parents were coping with bro, seeing them stressed out by him, endless hours of listening my father vent about him, supporting my parents etc etc was not easy. It was just taken for granted I’d be ok, I could have done with some of the attention that my parents lavished on my bro. I think I grew up feeling unworthy of attention on a wider level ( at work, in early relationships with men)So I sympathise with your daughter and really urge you to be wary of disproportionately focusing on your son’s needs.

I’ve re-read your update and it still seems like you think dd over reacted.

Would you agree that the house revolves around ds and him not having a meltdown? I realise that it’s the easiest way for you to cope but have you considered what it’s like for dd to tiptoe around his behaviour and witness you consoling him first when he is in the wrong? Have you considered the possibility that she’s absolutely right in her assessment of family life?

Your poor daughter.
Frankly it doesn’t matter if he has special needs or not - she has every right to safety in her own home and every right to expect much better from you in terms of having her back too. You sound utterly absorbed in him and his problems and just expect her to put up with being abused. When she does finally defend herself from an unprovoked assault, you rush to console her attacker
Im not surprised she doesn’t want anything to do with you all. She deserves better

This needs to be a serious teaching moment for ds instead of just the crying to try and get his own way with sister coming back, in a kid friendly way, you have to have a this is what happens when you hit people, they won’t want to talk to you and they may defend themselves.

for dd don’t push or rush her to coming back, have days out with her that are just her, what she wants to do, build up that relationship again before in time talk to her about it’s not going to be her just coming around and ds just doing what he wants. You’re going to make time for her etc and ensure no more attacks

You say DD is upset...and then move swiftly into talking about how that is affecting DS. Can you see why she thinks everything is about him? She's 7 and half stone, and he's almost 5 stone, that's not exactly a massive size differential. She couldn't realistically have lifted him or restrained him safely.

Completely agree @InMyShowgirlEra

OP, you say she’s not talking to any of you now. This is not surprising and it is why I mentioned upthread that your actions are not only harmful to your relationship with your daughter but will damage your kids relationship with each other.

You are not doing your son -that you sadly clearly favour over your daughter - any favours either in the long term. He will end up losing the relationship to his older sister and you will be very much to blame.

Your daughter sounds very strong-minded and thankfully knows her worth and value. Maybe it’s for the best she has removed herself from what is a toxic environment for her.

I can only hope she’s not playing second fiddle to some other child at her dad’s house too.